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The Kurt Rosenwinkel Forum » Tag: arpeggios - Recent Posts http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ The Kurt Rosenwinkel Forum » Tag: arpeggios - Recent Posts en Thu, 28 Jul 2016 20:17:41 +0000 Neither on "Scale shapes" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/scales-shapes#post-10882
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Tue, 19 Feb 2013 08:25:44 +0000
Neither 10882@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Same pattern and fingering on this video :</p> <p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBuMOrBT1vQ" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBuMOrBT1vQ</a> </p>
Neither on "Scale shapes" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/scales-shapes#post-10878
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Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:57:36 +0000
Neither 10878@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Another interesting thing I noticed after transcribing some lines with his fingerings is that he makes extensions between 2nd (middle) and 3rd (ring) fingers. When he talks about playing scales with 4 notes on each string, there is 1 different finger for each note, like Holdsworth. His fingerings for single lines are influenced by George Van Eps Harmonic Mechanisms for Guitar.</p> <p>Here is another video :</p> <p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYgh3NfSsUE" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYgh3NfSsUE</a></p> <p>The way he fingers this pattern (with triads) is unusual (for me) and very interesting (for what he does on the G &amp; B strings) :<br /> G major, 1rst shape :<br /> E3(2), A2(1), A5(4), D2(1), A3(2), E5(4), A2(1), A5(4), D4(3), D5(4), D2(1), A3(2), A5(4), D4(3), G2(1), G4(3), D5(4), D2(1), D4(3), G2(1), G5(4), B3(2), G4(3), D5(4), G2(1), G5(3), B5(4), E2(1), B3(2), G4(3), G5(3), B5(4), E'3(2), E'5(4), E'2(1), B3(2), G5(3), B5(4), E3(2), E2(1), B3(2), G4(3), G2(1), G5(3), B5(4), B3(2), G4(3), D5(4) etc...</p> <p>How he would finger the same pattern for the 6 other shapes is a ??? </p>
Neither on "Scale shapes" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/scales-shapes#post-10876
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Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:07:29 +0000
Neither 10876@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>For me the interesting thing in the video linked above is that Kurt anchors his scale shapes (he calls it "positions" in the video) with the middle finger. But he plays on this video only the 1rst and 2nd shapes, that aren't different than the "classical" shapes anchored with the first finger and we can't see how he plays the other shapes.</p> <p><em>About my system of notation :</em><br /> E3(2) means that a note (G) is played on the E string below the 3rd fret with the 2nd finger (middle finger).<br /> A5(4) means that a note (D) is played on the A string below the 5th fret with the 4th finger (pinky).</p> <p>In major G (ascending and descending)<br /> 1st shape :<br /> E3(2), E5(4), A2(1), A3(2), A5(4), D2(1), D4(3), D5(4), G2(1), G4(3), G5(4), B3(2), B5(4), E'2(1), E'3(2), E'5(4), E'3(2), E'2(1), B5(4), B3(2), G5(4), G4(3), G2(1), D5(4), D4(3), D2(1), A5(4), A3(2), A2(1), E5(4), E3(2), E2(1)<br /> 2nd shape :<br /> E5(2), E7(4), A3(1), A5(2), A7(4), D4(1), D5(2), D7(4), G4(1), G5(2), G7(4), B5(2), B7(4), E'3(1), E'5(2), E'7(4), E'5(2), E'3(1), B7(4), B5(2), G7(4), G5(2), G4(1), D7(4), D5(2), D4(1), A7(4), A5(2), A3(1), E7(4), E5(2), E3(1)<br /> 3rd shape :<br /> E7(2), E8(3), A5(1), A7(2), A9(4), D5(1), D7(2), D9(4), G5(1), G7(2) [or maybe G7(3) ?], B5(1) [or maybe G7(2) and G9(4) ?], B7(2), B8(3), E'5(1), E'7(2), E'8(3), E'7(2), E'5(1), B8(3), B7(2), B5(1) [or G9(4) ?], G7(2) [or maybe B5(1) and G7(3) ?], G5(1), D9(4), D7(2), D5(1), D5(1), A9(4), A7(2), A5(1), E8(3), E7(2), E5(1)<br /> ...<br /> 7th shape<br /> E14(2), E15(3), A12(1), A14(2), A15(3), D12(1), D14(2), D16(4), G12(1), G14(2) [or maybe G14(3) ?], B12(1) [or maybe G14(2) and G16(4) ?], B13(1) [or B13(2) ? here is the major question], B15(3) [or B15(4) ?], E'12(1), E'14(2), E'15(3), ...</p> <p>The 3rd and 7th shape are the shapes that are different than the "classical" shapes most of us learnt. I think it makes sense for legato (you don't have extentions of the 4th finger !) and when you link this shapes with chords. </p>
docbop on "Scale shapes" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/scales-shapes#post-10868
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Fri, 15 Feb 2013 23:21:12 +0000
docbop 10868@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>I been doing my best to get away from fingering patterns and to focus on the notes. It's totally impossible to get away from patterns because most get taught with the dots-on-a-grid approach so it's lurking in the background. But the more I get into Bebop the more important the notes become in making the changes in a solo. First thing that got me out of finger patterns was sightreading and having to move all over and having to just know where notes are. Also I've played bass a lot and you tend to shift all over the neck more than guitar and need to know the notes that thinking in a pattern would slow down. </p> <p>when thinking about this topic I thought back to when I was a kid and played trumpet for awhile. As a guitar player you're taught a grid of notes and told they relate, over time they start teaching interval distances, and scale degrees, and if lucky eventually the note names. But as a trumpet player your taught a notes name what it looks like on the staff, and what it sounds like, then taught the fingering to create that note. So IMO guitarists are taught backwards. </p>
Neither on "Scale shapes" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/scales-shapes#post-10863
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Fri, 15 Feb 2013 11:01:33 +0000
Neither 10863@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn2uEBvekcE" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn2uEBvekcE</a> </p>
Matt on "Scale shapes" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/scales-shapes#post-6193
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Mon, 02 Jan 2012 18:31:39 +0000
Matt 6193@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>i've been getting out of pattern completely, or attempting, by playing 4,3, and 2 note per string scales across the freatboard. maybe it's worth trying. </p>
guelda on "Scale shapes" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/scales-shapes#post-6187
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Mon, 02 Jan 2012 09:51:34 +0000
guelda 6187@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>@twistedblues : could you please specify which shapes you are talking about ? As CAGED system has only 5 shapes, I'm not too sure which could be "shape 6" :) </p>
twistedblues on "Scale shapes" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/scales-shapes#post-6169
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Sat, 31 Dec 2011 15:00:23 +0000
twistedblues 6169@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>I have always wondered why the 5th to 6th scale degrees in shapes 6 and 2 for the caged.. are played with the 1st and 3rd fingers instead of the 2nd and 4th fingers? less awkward when playing thirds. anyone know anything about why that is? </p>
david6strings on "Scale shapes" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/scales-shapes#post-5357
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Mon, 15 Aug 2011 16:35:09 +0000
david6strings 5357@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>what i have discover recently is two interesting books about this topic:</p> <p>ALL SCALES IN ALL POSITIONS Muriel Anderson, Jim Scott (Hal Leonard)<br /> JOHNNY SMITH AIDS TO TECHNIQUE FOR GUITAR (Django Books .com) </p> <p>i like the 3 octave arpeggios in the johnny smith&#39;s one. the fingerings are harder to play but it&#39;s like if guitar sounds better that way...kind of harp sound </p>
brwnhornet59 on "Scale shapes" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/scales-shapes#post-5341
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Sat, 13 Aug 2011 15:39:27 +0000
brwnhornet59 5341@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>I learned em all in all positions and fingerings. I am anal about it. Being familiar with all shapes can be more complicated, but it never cease&#39;s to amaze me when new shapes I never saw before appear suddenly. It happened the other day with a minor 7 arp shape. It blew me away. It was always there, I just wasn&#39;t seeing it. My blues scales suck. 1st position only. But I play Pent just fine in all positions. I usually combine two pent shapes to form a super pattern and then finger it in 3&#39;s. They are giant intervals, but it is great practice and an awesome workout. </p> <p>Cycling in circles of 5ths is great, 4ths to. I am just getting MM down pat in all positions. What helped me most with that was play off of a pedal note, as well as diatonically up and down the neck. Harmonic Major is still a trip for me. Harmonic Minor has always been my staple. But now MM is taking over. I love h/w dim. 4 note per string is a great exercise. I find myself doing it more when playing bebop scales. More often than not I am play 5-6 per string with them.</p> <p>I love practicing in 3&#39;rds 4ths and 5th&#39;s. I am trying to get better at 6ths and 7th intervals. One step at a time. With all that said I still think I suck!!! LOL. </p>
JorgeRubiales on "New year resolution: arpeggios" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-year-resolution-arpeggios#post-4729
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Mon, 30 May 2011 18:27:26 +0000
JorgeRubiales 4729@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Thanks Matt! I put this up mainly to motivate other lazy players like me who think arpeggios are &quot;too much of a hassle to study right now&quot;, and to help me being objective about the real pace of the progress. Today I was thinking &quot;maybe I should get back to study only arpeggios, I&#39;ve still a lot to learn&quot;, but as I was writing today&#39;s post I realized that I&#39;ve only worked for four months. It&#39;s weird how time works hehe. </p>
Matt on "New year resolution: arpeggios" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-year-resolution-arpeggios#post-4728
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Mon, 30 May 2011 18:18:06 +0000
Matt 4728@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>congrats jorge! good to hear it&#39;s going well. nothing like getting stuff together with dedication and practice! </p>
JorgeRubiales on "New year resolution: arpeggios" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-year-resolution-arpeggios#post-4726
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Mon, 30 May 2011 16:51:32 +0000
JorgeRubiales 4726@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>I figured out it was time to update this thread. I&#39;ve been studying mostly arpeggios for 4 months. I haven&#39;t maintained the &quot;arpeggio diet&quot; because I had a lot more things to study, but it is about 75% of my guitar-things study schedule.</p> <p>I&#39;ll tell you what: I was at a jam session the other day, and I called &quot;song for my father&quot;. I found myself more comfortable throwing arpeggios most of the time, mixing it with some blues scale in the Db7 C7 phrase (I can&#39;t mix them up that quick yet), and I didn&#39;t think much about it.</p> <p>So there you have it, it is not more complicated that learning pentatonic scales. It takes time to mix them at will, but hey it&#39;s just been four months since I learned my first arpeggio, so if anyone is struggling with this, I hope this post helps as a motivational tool </p>
fakejake on "'How Deep...' Changes" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/how-deep-changes#post-4599
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Sun, 15 May 2011 16:08:54 +0000
fakejake 4599@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Wow, thanks guys for those great replies. I just worked on those ideas and really dig the sound that i &#39;m getting.<br /> The diminished arpeggio is cool, it is pretty oldschool but I like it. Plus, I can play it over II and V.</p> <p>I guess one major mistake of mine is 1) trying to nail every chord in the chart, and 2) doing so with as many notes as possible. It&#39;s a lot easier though to concentrate on the melody if I just play the V instead of the II V, just like you suggested.<br /> Those triads pretty hip too, I especially liked the sound of going from a Db triad to a G triad to a Cmin triad. The Eb instead of the G triad is cool as<br /> well, but a little to similar to the Cmin. </p> <p>Thanks a lot for those suggestions, this gives me stuff to work on for hours... </p>
harmnobean on "'How Deep...' Changes" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/how-deep-changes#post-4595
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Sun, 15 May 2011 14:03:20 +0000
harmnobean 4595@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Measure 2 of Kurt&#39;s solo (with the aforementioned C#) looks to me like a triad pair. In this case, using Db major and Eb major triads over G7. The Db generates b5, b7, and b9, while the Eb generates #5, 1, and #9. So I agree with jazznan, that this works because it is perfectly ok to ignore the ii chord in a ii-V progression. I would add, though, that part of why these simple major triads sound so colorful is because of the context given by the rhythm section. If the bassist and pianist played Db Eb for that measure instead of D-7b5 G7, the line wouldn&#39;t have nearly the same impact, in my opinion. </p>
jazznan on "'How Deep...' Changes" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/how-deep-changes#post-4594
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Sun, 15 May 2011 12:42:38 +0000
jazznan 4594@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Just think home keys...moving from key of Eb to Bb and then add the thirds of each five chord to your line. Make melodies</p> <p>I haven&#39;t studied Kurt&#39;s solo, but just looking at it briefly, the C# over Dm7b5....more likely Kurt is thinking G7 for the whole bar or Bdim, or he&#39;s just making strong melodies </p>
harmnobean on "'How Deep...' Changes" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/how-deep-changes#post-4592
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Sat, 14 May 2011 21:21:45 +0000
harmnobean 4592@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>I would practice using an F#o7 arpeggio (F# A C Eb) resolving to G melodic minor/Gm6 in bars 4-5. Here are some examples that would work either in bar 4 or bar 6. </p> <p>F# A C Eb D C Bb A / G (root of Gm)</p> <p>G F F# A C Eb D C / Bb (third of Gm)</p> <p>Another good one to practice is to make the ii-7b5 chord a dominant, in this case A7 or Eb7, leading to the D7. You could use C#o7 arpeggio on the A7, leading to an F#o7 arpeggio on D7, like so:</p> <p>C# E G Bb A F# Eb Db / D (5th of Gm).</p> <p>The A7 (instead of A-7b5) works for a few reasons. 1) It creates a stronger pull to the D7 because it&#39;s the V of D7. 2) The C# in the A7 is a blue note in G minor, which is the key center we&#39;re in for measures 5-6. </p> <p>Another idea with A7 to D7 would be to use a diad of C# and Bb for the A7 (3 and b9), moving down a half step to C and A for D7 (b7 and 5), and move that down a whole step to Bb and G for G minor (b3 and 1). This sits really nicely on the G and E strings.</p> <p>Getting these simple, clear resolutions under your fingers will help express the changes effectively and open up your ears to more colorful options than just using the parent scale for all related chords. You could use this same concept with bar 2, but transposed to Bo7, instead of using C melodic minor for the ii-V in bar 2.</p> <p>When you get to G minor, melodic minor and G blues are really good options I think. In fact, I think it would be totally appropriate to approach bars 5-6 and the first half of bar 7 the same way you would treat bars 1-3, but in G minor instead of C minor. The tune itself actually does this: The melody over the G minor section is the same melody as the C minor section but transposed. </p> <p>As for the mixolydian #11 question:<br /> I don&#39;t think modally very much in my own playing, but if you understand how different notes work on different chords, I think you will find that you can convincingly use either mixolydian or mixolydian#11 on any of those dominants. The only difference in these scales is one has the natural 4, and the other has the #4.</p> <p>If I were using the natural 4, I would probably be using it on the way to targeting the third. So, for Eb7, I might go Ab Gb G, or Ab F Gb G. I could also use Eb blues scale on the Eb7, in which case the fourth will sound totally acceptable if you use it as part of a bluesy melody.</p> <p>While 4 typically wants to move down to 3, #4 is going to be inclined to go up to scale degree 5. Say you want to use this sound on the Ab7, you could go D F E D Eb C, which uses the #11 twice to surround the 5th (Eb) which then moves down to C, the third. Try that one beginning on beat one of Ab7, using 8th notes. </p> <p>I think when you are still learning how to get through standard-type changes in a simple and effective way, you might want to check out some guys who play a little more simply than a player like Kurt. Guys like Hank Mobley and Dexter Gordon are really great for this. Check out their solos on If I Should Lose You and Cheese Cake, respectively, for some great ideas on minor tunes. You are sure to find lots of things that you could readily apply to How Deep Is The Ocean. Kurt&#39;s stuff will probably be a lot more meaningful after checking out some older guys approaches, as well. Bill Evans also has a great version of this tune on his Explorations album.</p> <p>I hope some of that helps! </p>
fakejake on "'How Deep...' Changes" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/how-deep-changes#post-4589
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Sat, 14 May 2011 13:55:42 +0000
fakejake 4589@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Hey guys!<br /> A few days ago I started working on &#39;How deep is the ocean&#39;, based on the changes that are given in the transcription of Kurts solo by Bruce Saunders (which seem a little more straight forward than those from the RealBook). Those of you who have already studied that tune, could you share some of your note choices for the changes? </p> <p>On the Cmin II V I in the first 2 bars I use C melodic minor, which works pretty well.<br /> However the, Gminor II V I in bars 4-5 is giving me a hard time. Any thoughts on that? </p> <p>Later on, there is a Eb7 --&gt; Ab7 --&gt; B7 --&gt; Fmin progression. That Eb7 should be Mixolydian, as it resolves. According to textbook Jazz harmony, the Ab7 and the B7 would be Mixolydian #11, as they dont resolve properly (am I right here?) but I&#39;m having a hard time getting that to sound acceptable...</p> <p>BTW I already learned Kurts solo, and I know there is tons of great stuff going on there, but before I start working on things like upper structure triads and reharmonizations I want to get the basics (i.e. guidetones, scales + arpeggios) right.</p> <p>I&#39;d appreciate any help, cheers, jake </p>
JorgeRubiales on "New year resolution: arpeggios" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-year-resolution-arpeggios#post-3773
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Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:57:15 +0000
JorgeRubiales 3773@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Hey everybody! Long time without writing, but I&#39;ve had a big cold for a few days (still have it) :(</p> <p>Anyway, just wanted to write how it&#39;s going. By now I have added the shaopes for the dominant arpeggio.</p> <p>Some exercises to avoid a &quot;mental mess&quot; with all these patterns (15 by now), are:</p> <p>- In the same pattern, play consecutive Maj7, m7 and 7 arpeggio.<br /> - Armonizing a major tonality with arpeggios, in position and up and down the neck.<br /> - II-V-I in several parts of the neck, changing keys.<br /> - Playing the changes of a tune in position, no tempo.</p> <p>All of this goes very slow by now, nothing to write home about, nor enough to play over giant steps, but I can definitely feel some melodic improvement over slower tunes or tunes with slower harmonic movement.</p> <p>The next thing to do is to start jumping inside the patterns (playing them non-secuentially i.e: root,5,3,7; or root,7,3,root,5,3,7,5;).</p> <p>I&#39;ll keep you &quot;tuned-up&quot; of my progress. See you soon! </p>
arewolfe on "Scale shapes" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/scales-shapes#post-3727
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Mon, 17 Jan 2011 23:20:36 +0000
arewolfe 3727@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>I learned most 7-note scales using 7 positions along the neck (3 notes per string). Now I practice more slowly, 4 notes per string ascending from the lowest possible note in the scale (on the low E string) all the way to the highest note on the fretboard (on the high e string), then descend. I continue playing the scale the same way through all 12 keys. </p> <p>To make things more interesting (instead of cycle of 5ths) I move through the Kurt/Coltrane cube (F, C#, A, C, Ab, E, Eb, B, G, Bb, Gb, D). After I get through playing the scale up and down the neck in all 12 keys I slow down even more - I play 4 notes per string in one key, and then play 4 notes from the next key on the next string, all the way to the highest note on the high e string, and continue the process until I&#39;m mentally exhausted, usually less than 5 minutes. This is an exercise I stole from a KR clinic. It has really helped me visualize things and become more fluid moving linearly through changes. </p> <p>I never had much success (or interest) in memorizing pentatonic shapes or blues scales, except in root position. But I can visualize and hear them now. I think this is from working with so many minor scales over the years, you&#39;re always learning where the characteristic notes are in those scales, but the pentatonic is almost always in there.</p> <p>Symmetrical diminished scales are difficult for me to visualize. I tried learning them in position using 3 notes per string but could never memorized them for more than a few months. I&#39;ve been working on them using the 4-note-per-string method above, up and down the whole neck. Diminished scales are very uncomfortable for me and I don&#39;t have a very good grasp on using them. I&#39;m more interested in using diminished figures or arpeggios, or concepts based off diminished chords, rather than diminished scale ideas. Kurt has a lot of these kinds of diminished figures that are very cool. One of my favorites is @ 1:58 in If I Should Lose You. </p>
david6strings on "Scale shapes" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/scales-shapes#post-3725
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Mon, 17 Jan 2011 21:31:24 +0000
david6strings 3725@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>excellent topic. im a fingering obsesed and i recomend u the caged system by far. my native system is the 7 diatonic shapes but i know the 5 shapes system and i working in the 12 in position william leavitt style.<br /> the are several reason for choose one or another way to approach, for me, these are the main reason to keep in mind:<br /> Keeping in position<br /> Tesiture of the musical phrase until it appears a rest (if you play 8th an 8th rest or bigger)<br /> sight reading<br /> articulation: this is very very important to me, to transcribe melodies from singers the same way they articulate the notes (in a book i found fingerings for 2 notes per string scales, you can think on hammer on approach)<br /> Timbre: i don&#39;t know the word in english it refers to the quality of the sound and is the reason you play a note in a string better than another, the classic exemple when you play over minor from 9 jump to 5 and return to 9 .</p> <p>conclusion: i write phrases, sometimes short ones, sometimes longer. the intervallic gives you the right choice. i also think about a melodic pattern and i repeat it over the next tone of the scale. so a lot of vertical and horizontal fingerboard workshop<br /> for me there are not a system that can work by itself alone. the key is the phrase, one can be played with severa fingerings, but there are musical phrases that you can only do 1 way if you want do it well. </p>
JorgeRubiales on "Scale shapes" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/scales-shapes#post-3723
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Mon, 17 Jan 2011 17:59:48 +0000
JorgeRubiales 3723@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>I&#39;ve learned with a five shapes system, not using the CAGED terminology but basically the same. I&#39;m expanding now with three notes per string, but using only five of he seven patterns to be consistent with the frame of caged.</p> <p>I think it&#39;s just a matter of scalability. Studying 5 patterns of few notes gives you a more limited range to explore, but also starts to give you knowledge about the notes, fretboard and melody. My advice would be to start with CAGED (again, forgettin a little bit of the terminology i.e: A shape, E shape, etc.), and once dominated, expanding to 3 notes per string on the same five positions as before. Then I&#39;ll work on connecting those five just playing on one string, groups of two, etc. until hopefully everything falls into place.</p> <p>My teacher told me that you would then re-learn the scales but focusing on the actual names of the notes, but I don&#39;t know about that...I mean, our instrument is a very visual one, and thinking to play bebop with the actual note names seems to me as overcomplicating the already complicated. After all, what you&#39;re after is a functional relationship to a given key, so to me it doesn&#39;t matter if it&#39;s a C or an A flat, but I want to know if they&#39;re flat 9ths or 13ths.</p> <p>My .02 </p>
Neither on "Scale shapes" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/scales-shapes#post-3722
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Mon, 17 Jan 2011 17:41:00 +0000
Neither 3722@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>A question for the members of this forum (especialy Kurt !) :<br /> What is your &quot;native&quot; (or the one you use most of the time) scale shape system for major and melodic/harmonic minor scales ? Did you learn with the 7 shapes system (12 positions simplified) ? The 12 positions system ? the 5 shapes system (CAGED) ? the 3 notes per string system (7 shapes too) ? another system ? And why ? And for symetric and pentatonic scales ?<br /> there are some interests in both, i think, for scales, arpeggios... they both imply different ways of fingering lines.<br /> But I&#39;d like to know what you think about it !<br /> Thanks for all the answers you&#39;ll send here,<br /> best </p>
Matt on "New year resolution: arpeggios" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-year-resolution-arpeggios#post-3690
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Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:59:47 +0000
Matt 3690@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>i think ted greene would agree with the bach study; bach is heavy! </p>
JorgeRubiales on "New year resolution: arpeggios" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-year-resolution-arpeggios#post-3689
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Thu, 13 Jan 2011 10:26:46 +0000
JorgeRubiales 3689@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Hey Sandemose, I&#39;ve been working on that chromatic exercise too, but I don&#39;t mind about the fingering, mostly because I&#39;m used to make portamentos to keep fingering to a minimum.</p> <p>I&#39;m on my fourth day of my &quot;arpeggio diet&quot;. I definitely can see a benefit in playing only arpeggios all day. The only time I&#39;m making real music right now is when I study classical, and even then I&#39;ve seen an unexpected benefit (particularly in Bach pieces, now and then I&#39;ll play a passage and be able to identify a major arpeggio without even think of it!).</p> <p>I&#39;ve introduced the five shapes already, so now I&#39;m going for the minor 7ths. I&#39;ll recommend this way of working to anyone who has problems with scales or arpeggios, given that he has free time to study and has the ability to concentrate for extended periods of time.</p> <p>I&#39;ll tell you how this goes in a couple days!</p> <p>David, your tab messed up....I know it&#39;s a pity, I hated to write tab on forums, it&#39;s time consuming and 90% of the time something goes wrong and the whole thing messes up.... </p>
david6strings on "New year resolution: arpeggios" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-year-resolution-arpeggios#post-3673
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Tue, 11 Jan 2011 07:08:30 +0000
david6strings 3673@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>i dont know what has happened hith the tab</p> <p>(Eb G Bb C ) (C A F Eb) since C are the common tone C-7 and F7 and i want 4 note arpeggios playing in eights, i dont want to hear two times C. so i modified the first arpeggio (Eb G Bb D) that D is apoggiatura isn&#39;t it (hahaha im not sure) or i can put a chromatic tone instead of the root (Eb G Bb B) an then the second original arpeggio C A F Eb </p>
david6strings on "New year resolution: arpeggios" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-year-resolution-arpeggios#post-3672
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Tue, 11 Jan 2011 06:58:02 +0000
david6strings 3672@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /> ----------5--8-------6--------------------------8--6------5-----------------------------------------------------------<br /> ------6----------------------8--6--------5-----------------------6--5-------6--3----------------5-----3-------2----<br /> ---8---------------------8-------------------6-----------------6--------------------4--3------2-----5----------------<br /> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p> <p>Im working right now in this kind of tones leading. what i do is some kind of permutation over one octave close position arpeggios. i think is good for chord running in songs with a lot of harmony activity. the first i focus is the jump between two roots, then i play 4 eights so i can&#39;t repeat any chord tone and it is perfect defined by its 4 notes. but what is interesting is to internalize the what chord tones can be better lead.<br /> in an ascending perfect fourth root fashion we find easy to lead a tone to another in the next chord but when the last eight note are a common tone between the two chords then maybe we can use another things like apoggiatura or chromatic tones</p> <p>------------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------------<br /> ------------------------------------- ------------3---------------------------------------------------------<br /> ---------3---5-------5---2--------- say we want that 2 voicinigs ---------3------5--2-----------or------------3--4--5---2------------<br /> -----5------------------------3--1-- then i play it like this ------5----------------3--1--------------5-------------------3--1----<br /> --6---------------------------------- ---6----------------------------------6-------------------------------<br /> -------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- </p>
Neither on "New year resolution: arpeggios" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-year-resolution-arpeggios#post-3671
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Tue, 11 Jan 2011 06:47:09 +0000
Neither 3671@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Hey, Sandemose,<br /> What is this Lage Lunds lesson you talk about ? Is it a lesson we can find on internet, or is it a private lesson he did for you ?</p> <p>Best </p>
Sandemose on "New year resolution: arpeggios" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-year-resolution-arpeggios#post-3670
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Tue, 11 Jan 2011 05:38:08 +0000
Sandemose 3670@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Hi all, this is how I practice arpeggios:</p> <p>I have this technical excercise which only practice the fingering and shapes for maj7, dom7, minor7, minor7b5, minor-major7. In this excercise I ascend or decsend cromatically, halfsteps using a certain fingering pattern:</p> <p>Gmaj7 Abmaj7</p> <p>-------------------------2--3---4--3-------------------------------------------4--5----<br /> ----------------------3----------------4--------------------------------------5--------<br /> -------------------4----------------------5--------------------------------6-----------<br /> ------------4--5----------------------------6--5--------------------6--7-------------<br /> ------2--5----------------------------------------6--3-------4--7--------------------<br /> ----3----------------------------------------------------4--5-------------------------<br /> F: 2 1 4 3 4 3 2 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 3 4 1 2 3 1 4 etc. </p> <p>So I ascend cromatically without sliding, instead preparing the hand with this fingering pattern to avoid sliding/glissando.</p> <p>Its really time consuming to write these things out, but I have a fingering system for practicing these kind of patterns diatonically as well, starting from the root, third, fifth and seventh. If people are intrested I´ll write it out. I also have specific patterns for practicing triads as well.</p> <p>One thing that should be mentioned speaking of arpeggios is to be able to use the same patterns over different contexts, finding nice subs, outside sounds, generalizing etc. Like, play through a tune only using minor7 patterns over all chords, major7, minor7, dom7 (altered sounds). I also spend much time only playing triads from the root, third and fifth (from Lage Lunds lesson), and that helped me connect with the sounds much better, hearing the harmonic movement, and learning the tune by heart much faster. Highly recommended.</p> <p>Best, Sandemose </p>
JorgeRubiales on "New year resolution: arpeggios" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-year-resolution-arpeggios#post-3669
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Mon, 10 Jan 2011 20:10:22 +0000
JorgeRubiales 3669@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Well, this is my second day of practicing arpeggios. I would say that between yesterday and today I&#39;ve practiced about 5 hours on this alone.</p> <p>My procedure for has been taking one pattern of the maj7 arpeggio and work it through the entire neck, just in sequence. When I felt my fingers had memorized the pattern reasonably well, I switched to another one. When I finished with the second pattern, I started playing up and down the neck with both patterns, like this: position 1: pattern 1, then pattern 2; position two: pattern 1, then pattern 2...</p> <p>Today I added a third pattern, and continued to practice the other two as before, but sometimes I would try to go up pattern 1 and down pattern 2. Pretty difficult for now at a reasonable speed.</p> <p>What I&#39;m after for now is to make my fingers learn the patterns thoroughly, I&#39;m not making music right now. Between tonight and tomorrow I hope to add the third pattern to the entire neck exercise and to start practicing a fourth pattern by itself.</p> <p>I feel I&#39;m starting to get something out of this, but it&#39;s a tough thing because I need to stay focused. I can&#39;t afford to get the pattern wrong, so it really needs concentration.</p> <p>I&#39;ll tell you how it goes and what I discover by the way (if I don&#39;t go nuts lol). Wish me luck! </p>