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The Kurt Rosenwinkel Forum » Tag: inversion - Recent Posts http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ The Kurt Rosenwinkel Forum » Tag: inversion - Recent Posts en Mon, 25 Jul 2016 00:12:32 +0000 Neither on "Inversions" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/inversions#post-11106
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Wed, 27 Mar 2013 17:23:27 +0000
Neither 11106@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>It seems interesting.<br /> Great transcriptions here : <a href="http://julioherrlein.com/site/?page_id=154">http://julioherrlein.com/site/?page_id=154</a> </p>
herrlein on "Inversions" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/inversions#post-11105
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Wed, 27 Mar 2013 16:59:34 +0000
herrlein 11105@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Dear Friends, </p> <p>Please, check this book !</p> <p>Every chord is there !</p> <p>“This book is unique in that it applies combinatorial approach to harmony with materials generally known to the jazz improvisor, thus casting a new and exciting light on a familiar subject. It is also the only book I have seen of its kind to be so guitar-friendly. I am finding a vast store of possibilities here, and I am very grateful to Julio Herrlein for providing them.”</p> <p>Ben Monder</p> <p>“Julio Herrlein has put together a very comprehensive overview of his approach to harmony and improvisation. His text is filled with useful and practical tools that will be very valuable to any serious student. Highly recommended.”</p> <p>John Stowell</p> <p>“Julio Herrlein’s Combinatorial Harmony book reveals all the possible combinations of notes and harmonic situ- ations you’ll need in order to be a creative and unique musician, regardless of the style you play. One of the best things about this book is that it really inspires you to come up with your own ideas. It shows the student all the different colors and canvases you have available, but you’re the one that has to paint it! I’m sure many serious guitarists (and other musicians) will benefit from this definitive work!”</p> <p>Gustavo Assis-Brasil Music</p> <p>What we see in this book is heavy artillery! Valuable information, deeply detailed and illustrated in order to bring both the student and the experienced musician the opportunity to experience harmony and all its combinatorial relations in a logical and effective way.<br /> A good tree is one that produces good fruit, and the musical examples presented by Julio Herrlein in this book prove that. The tasteful exercises in this book demonstrate the genius of this virtuoso guitarist, who has now generously shared with us his knowledge.</p> <p>Nelson Faria - Oficial</p> <p>COMBINATORIAL HARMONY - CONCEPTS AND TECHNIQUES FOR COMPOSING AND IMPROVISING (BY JULIO HERRLEIN) is a unique and complete system for exploring endless musical possibilities in any style. This book is a must for the contemporary musician. Despite being a guitar-friendly book with a complete mapping of the fretboard, the book is also useful for improvisers, arrangers, composers, theorists and students interested in the combinatorial approach to music. About 1,000 different voicings in all positions and drops are presented, including complete 3-note and 4-note voicings with specially designed guitar diagrams. The book also includes all triad-pairs (hexatonics) and their combinations in melodic exercises. The book presents brand new "combinatorial voice-leading", for 21st century chorale writing and contrapuntal exploring for any instrument or arrangement. In 312 pages, the book provides a vast store of material for compositional and improvisational use.</p> <p><a href="http://www.melbay.com/Products/30042BCD/combinatorial-harmony-concepts-and-techniques-for-composing-and-improvising.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.melbay.com/Products/30042BCD/combinatorial-harmony-concepts-and-techniques-for-composing-and-improvising.aspx</a> </p>
Basile865 on "Inversions" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/inversions#post-11092
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Wed, 20 Mar 2013 16:19:27 +0000
Basile865 11092@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Wow, i'll have to check this out later tonight but thanks so much for taking the time to answer </p>
Neither on "Inversions" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/inversions#post-11091
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Wed, 20 Mar 2013 13:16:36 +0000
Neither 11091@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>So i guess the root doesnt count as the first note, correct? Otherwise itd be more like drop 3.<br /> If someone wants to make drop 2's does the chord have to have the r 3 5 7 intervals? What if its a r 5 7 10. I guess 10 is the 3?<br /> If i had a chord like this:<br /> E:5<br /> B:7<br /> G:7<br /> D:5<br /> A:7<br /> E:x<br /> What would be the drop 2 voicing of that?<br /> I guess the same principles apply to drop 4's?</blockquote></p> <p>Poparad explained it better than I did.</p> <p>Some more answers because you seem a bit confused :</p> <p>Drop voicings are open voicings of close voicings. Any chord can be played in Root position (it means the Root of the chord is on the bass part of the voicing), or in as many inversion (with the other notes this chord contains on the bass) as the voicing contains other notes than the Root. Which note is on the bottom determines the inversion.<br /> Take a triad. let's say C major. You have bottom to top C, E, G (R, 3, 5). But C, G, E (R, 5, 3 (an octave higher)) or G, C, E (5, R, 3) are a C major triad too. But the distribution of notes is not the same. Same chord with different voicings.<br /> A close voicing is a voicing which has the lowest and the highest note that form an interval smaller than an octave. It's a compacted voicing, a compacted presentation of a chord. Close voicings of C major are, bottom to top, C, E, G (R, 3, 5) [Root position] ; E, G, C (3, 5, R) [1rst inversion] ; G, C, E (5, R, 3) [2nd, and last, inversion]. As Poparad said, if you put any of this voicings in numerical order (R=1), you'll have R -&gt; 3 -&gt; 5 (or C -&gt; E -&gt; G) . See the root position of this chord in close voicing. If you want to find the 1rst inversion, the R goes to the 3, the 3 to the 5 and the 5 to the R. Proceed with the 1rst inversion in order to find the 2nd inversion. The voicing has 3 notes so you have a root position and 2 inversions.<br /> In order to find Drop 2 of this chords, take the close voicings :<br /> 5 (G) __________ R (C) ___________ 3 (E)<br /> 3 (E) __________ 5 (G) ___________ R (C)<br /> R (C) __________ 3 (E) ___________ 5 (G)<br /> Root position ___ 1rst inversion ____ 2nd inversion</p> <p>Take the 2nd note (begining with the top) of each of this close voicings and put it an octave below, you've got a Drop 2 :<br /> 5 (G) __________ R (C) ___________ 3 (E)<br /> R (C) __________ 3 (E) ___________ 5 (G)<br /> 3 (E) __________ 5 (G) ___________ R (C)<br /> 1rst inversion ___ 2nd inversion ____ Root position</p> <p>Drop 2 means that you drop the 2nd voice of a close voicing, beginning on the top voice, an octave below.<br /> Drop 3 means that you drop the 3rd voice of a close voicing, beginning on the top voice, an octave below.<br /> I think you can find Drop 4 or Drop 2 &amp; 4...</p> <p>In order to answer your questions</p> <p><blockquote>So i guess the root doesnt count as the first note, correct? Otherwise itd be more like drop 3.</blockquote></p> <p>The root counts. But you must count beginning with the top note of the voicing. For a Drop 3, you'll have to drop the 3rd voice (beginning with the highest note of the voicing) of the close voicing an octave below.</p> <p><blockquote>If someone wants to make drop 2's does the chord have to have the r 3 5 7 intervals? What if its a r 5 7 10. I guess 10 is the 3?</blockquote></p> <p>"r 3 5 7" is a close voicing in root position of a chord elaborated in thirds.<br /> If I figure this voicing like I did above (let's say for an example CMAJ7) :<br /> 7 (B)<br /> 5 (G)<br /> 3 (E)<br /> R (C)<br /> Root position</p> <p>"r 5 7 10" is a Drop 2 voicing in root position of the 2nd inversion (5, 7, R, 3) of the same chord (the 2nd note, beginning on the top note, is the R. You have to drop it. So put the R an octave below and you have a Drop 2 of this chord. It becomes a Drop 2 in Root position because the R becomes the lowest note).<br /> If I figure this voicing like I did above :<br /> 3 (E)<br /> 7 (B)<br /> 5 (G)<br /> R (C)<br /> Root position<br /> 10 is notated 3, because it's easier to think 3rd than 10th and because here the important thing is the function of third. I see it's an octave higher because notes are exposed with the lowest to the highest note of the voicing like on a musical stave.</p> <p><blockquote>If i had a chord like this:<br /> E:5<br /> B:7<br /> G:7<br /> D:5<br /> A:7<br /> E:x<br /> What would be the drop 2 voicing of that?<br /> I guess the same principles apply to drop 4's?</blockquote></p> <p>Your voicing is (b3 means minor third, b7 means minor seventh) :<br /> 11 (A)<br /> 9 (F#)<br /> b7 (D)<br /> b3 (G)<br /> R (E)</p> <p>Or with a different notation :<br /> 4 (A)<br /> 2 (F#)<br /> b7 (D)<br /> b3 (G)<br /> R (E)</p> <p>It's an open voicing because some intervals are higher than an octave.</p> <p>A close voicing of this chord would be :<br /> b7 (D)<br /> 4 (A)<br /> b3 (G)<br /> 2 (F#)<br /> R (E)</p> <p>So you can find the 4 inversions :</p> <p>b7 (D) ________ R (E) ________ 2 (F#) ________ b3 (G) ________ 4 (A)<br /> 4 (A) _________ b7 (D) _______ R (E) _________ 2 (F#) ________ b3 (G)<br /> b3 (G) ________ 4 (A) ________ b7 (D) ________ R (E) _________ 2 (F#)<br /> 2 (F#) ________ b3 (G) _______ 4 (A) _________ b7 (D) ________ R (E)<br /> R (E) _________ 2 (F#) _______ b3 (G) ________ 4 (A) _________ b7 (D)<br /> Root Position __ 1rst inversion __ 2nd inversion __ 3rd inversion __ 4th inversion</p> <p>Take the 4th inversion (because your voicing has a 4 on the top like this inversion). You need to drop the 2nd and 4rth voice of this voicing to obtain your voicing. So your voicing is a Drop 2 &amp; 4.</p> <p>here are the inversions and the root position of your voicing :</p> <p>b7 (D) ________ R (E) ________ 2 (F#) ________ b3 (G) ________ 4 (A)<br /> b3 (G) ________ 4 (A) ________ b7 (D) ________ R (E) _________ 2 (F#)<br /> R (E) _________ 2 (F#) _______ b3 (G) ________ 4 (A) _________ b7 (D)<br /> 4 (A) _________ b7 (D) _______ R (E) _________ 2 (F#) ________ b3 (G)<br /> 2 (F#) ________ b3 (G) _______ 4 (A) _________ b7 (D) ________ R (E)<br /> 1rst inversion __ 2nd inversion _ 3rd inversion __ 4th inversion____Root Position</p> <p>And a Drop 2 version of your chord :<br /> b7 (D) ________ R (E) ________ 2 (F#) ________ b3 (G) ________ 4 (A)<br /> b3 (G) ________ 4 (A) ________ b7 (D) ________ R (E) _________ 2 (F#)<br /> 2 (F#) ________ b3 (G) _______ 4 (A) _________ b7 (D) ________ R (E)<br /> R (E) _________ 2 (F#) _______ b3 (G) ________ 4 (A) _________ b7 (D)<br /> 4 (A) _________ b7 (D) _______ R (E) _________ 2 (F#) ________ b3 (G)<br /> 3rd inversion __ 4th inversion __Root Position ___ 1rst inversion __ 2nd inversion</p> <p>Most of this voicings can not be played on guitar. </p>
Floatingbridge on "Inversions" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/inversions#post-11089
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Wed, 20 Mar 2013 03:14:05 +0000
Floatingbridge 11089@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <br />
Floatingbridge on "Inversions" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/inversions#post-11088
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Wed, 20 Mar 2013 02:54:10 +0000
Floatingbridge 11088@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <br />
Poparad on "Inversions" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/inversions#post-11087
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Wed, 20 Mar 2013 00:49:45 +0000
Poparad 11087@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Here's my general rule for inversions:</p> <p>List out all of the notes in your chord in numerical order. Let's take the last example you posted:</p> <p>E:2<br /> B:2<br /> G:4<br /> D:2<br /> A:5<br /> E:3 </p> <p>You have, from low to high, G, D, E, B, C#, F#.</p> <p>I'm going to pick G as the root, as it has more primary notes of a Gmaj7 (root, 3rd, 5th, or 7th) chord than it does if any of the other notes were the root (although in certain inversions, Dmaj7 could work well, too). That's not to say it couldn't be some kind of F#7sus4(b9b13) chord, but I think Gmaj13#11 is a little more elegant in this case.</p> <p>Anyway, with G as the root, the notes are now R, 5, 6, 3, #4, 7</p> <p>If we put that in numerical order, ignoring any doublings, we get: R, 3, #4, 5, 6, 7.</p> <p>That is going to be our "inversion cycle." When we invert the voicing, in order to retain that exact spread of voicing, move each note over one in the list. In other words, R -&gt; 3 -&gt; #4 -&gt; 5 -&gt; 6 -&gt; 7 -&gt; R.</p> <p>So our original voicing was: R, 5, 6, 3, #4, 7</p> <p>Moving every note up one in the cycle, you get: 3, 6, 7, #4, 5, R. The only way to play that on guitar in standard tuning would be:</p> <p>3<br /> 3<br /> 6<br /> 4<br /> 7<br /> 7</p> <p>Not the most practical of voicings, but that's what it would be.</p> <p>This 'inversion cycle' technique works on all voicing types, no matter which notes you're using or how many. </p>
Floatingbridge on "Inversions" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/inversions#post-11086
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Tue, 19 Mar 2013 22:12:42 +0000
Floatingbridge 11086@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <br />
Basile865 on "Inversions" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/inversions#post-11085
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Tue, 19 Mar 2013 21:06:48 +0000
Basile865 11085@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>And for extra credit (haha)</p> <p>Lets say I had this chord and someone asked what and where is the first inversion of this chord?</p> <p>E:2<br /> B:2<br /> G:4<br /> D:2<br /> A:5<br /> E:3 </p>
Basile865 on "Inversions" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/inversions#post-11084
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Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:47:47 +0000
Basile865 11084@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Thanks a lot guys.</p> <p>So i guess the root doesnt count as the first note, correct? Otherwise itd be more like drop 3.</p> <p>If someone wants to make drop 2's does the chord have to have the r 3 5 7 intervals? What if its a r 5 7 10. I guess 10 is the 3?</p> <p>If i had a chord like this:</p> <p>E:5<br /> B:7<br /> G:7<br /> D:5<br /> A:7<br /> E:x</p> <p>What would be the drop 2 voicing of that?</p> <p>I guess the same principles apply to drop 4's? </p>
Neither on "Inversions" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/inversions#post-11083
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Tue, 19 Mar 2013 17:42:51 +0000
Neither 11083@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>your chord is a "classical" Drop 2, 1st inversion, of DMAJ7.<br /> If you take this DMAJ7, you've got R-3-5-7 (D, F#, A, C#). The 1rst inversion is 3-5-7-R (F#, A, C#, D). 2nd inversion is 5-7-R-3 (A, C#, D, F#). 3rd inversion is 7-R-3-5 (C#, D, F#, A).<br /> Some of them can't be played on guitar. So you'll have to drop some notes. Play the 2nd note (begining on the top note of each of this chords) and an octave below and you have an open voicing of the same chord, called "Drop 2". Ex : for R-3-5-7 (D, F#, A, C#), if you play the 2nd note (5) an octave below, you'll have 5-R-3-7 (A, D, F#, C#).<br /> You'll have the "drop 2" R-5-7-3 (D, A, C#, F#), 1rst inversion 3-7-R-5 (F#, C#, D, A), 2rst inversion 5-R-3-7 (A, D, F#, C#), 3rd inversion 7-3-5-R (C#, F#, A, D).<br /> Your chord is 3-7-R-5 (F#, C#, D, A).<br /> I'ts easy to see how you can make inversions of any chord. You can find the intervals between each note and the Root (consider them in one octave : if you have a 9th, consider it as a second. order them : here R, 3, 5, 7). For the upper inversion, move each voice to the next upper interval (here the R go, on each voice, to the 3, the 3 to the 5, the 5 to the 7, the 7 to the R).<br /> If you consider your voicing as a "F#m add b6", R-5-b6-b3 you can find inversions : 1rst b3-b6-R-5, 2nd 5-R-b3-b6, 3rd b6-b3-5-R (here the R go, on each voice, to the b3, the b3 to the 5, the 5 to the b6, the b6 to the R) . Sames voicings as for DMAJ7 but a different vision.<br /> For your chord, you've got, if you consider it is a DMAJ7,<br /> E:x<br /> B:7<br /> G:6<br /> D:7<br /> A:5<br /> E:x</p> <p>E:x<br /> B:10<br /> G:7<br /> D:11<br /> A:9<br /> E:x</p> <p>E:x<br /> B:14<br /> G:11<br /> D:12<br /> A:12<br /> E:x</p> <p>E:x<br /> B:15<br /> G:14<br /> D:16<br /> A:16<br /> E:x </p>
gleepglop on "Inversions" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/inversions#post-11082
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Tue, 19 Mar 2013 16:54:52 +0000
gleepglop 11082@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Inversion just means that the lowest note is something besides the root. It doesn't imply anything about the order of the other notes. A voicing describes a particular arrangement of notes/intervals. </p> <p>You could make different voicings of this inversion, like F# A D C# or F# D A C#<br /> Your regular drop-2 Dmaj7 voicing on the 5th fret A string is an inversion, as would be any combination of these notes<br /> I'm not much for tab, but:<br /> -x--5--5-<br /> -7--7--x-<br /> -6--6--6-<br /> -7--x--4-<br /> -5--5--5-<br /> -x--x--x-</p> <p>Are some examples of root position.</p> <p>Here's some for 2nd inversion (5th in the bass):</p> <p>-x--x--x--9--<br /> -x--3--7--7--<br /> -6--6--6--7--<br /> -4--4--x--x--<br /> -5--x--5--x--<br /> -5--5--5--5--</p> <p>Some other first inversion:<br /> -x--x--9---9--<br /> -2--3--x--10--<br /> -2--6--7---x--<br /> -x--7--7--12--<br /> -5--9--9---9--<br /> -2--x--x---x--</p> <p>The second one is tough unless you have huge hands, but it is easier in some other keys . . .</p> <p>3rd inversion would put the 7th on the bottom. It's rarely used for a straight M7 chords because of the resulting m9 interval with the bass note. If you switch out the root for a 9th, it works. </p> <p>You can be talking about inversions on the guitar that aren't really "inversions" musically because the bass player may be playing the root (and a musical inversion might sound good with the guitar playing in root position); usually it's easier to talk about voicings unless you're specifically saying that it's musically an inversion. </p>
hoops on "Inversions" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/inversions#post-11081
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Tue, 19 Mar 2013 16:24:37 +0000
hoops 11081@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>I always thought of inversions as starting on a note other than the root. For example, standard voicing = R-3-5-7 / first inversion = 3-5-7-R / second inversion = 5-7-R-3 / third inversion = 7-R-3-5. On guitar however, it's usually required to rearrange fingerings to avoid huge or awkward stretches. Inversions of 6th string rooted 7th chords on guitar would be typically voiced, R-7-3-5, 3-R-5-7, 5-3-7-R, 7-5-R-3. That chord you named is an inversion of a D maj7 chord. Interval wise it's 3-7-R-5. Hope this helps. </p>
Basile865 on "Inversions" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/inversions#post-11080
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Tue, 19 Mar 2013 15:31:07 +0000
Basile865 11080@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Hey guys, im just trying to understand inversions better. From my understanding, removing the bottom note from your chord to the octave up creates the first inversion? Or you can take the top note of a chord and make it the bass note an octave below?</p> <p>I was wondering if its possible to make an inversion of this chord on the guitar: </p> <p>E:x<br /> B:10<br /> G:7<br /> D:11<br /> A:9<br /> E:x</p> <p>Thanks </p>
TruthHertz on "Learning the fretboard" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/learning-the-fretboard#post-11076
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Mon, 18 Mar 2013 04:07:05 +0000
TruthHertz 11076@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>So if you're in the key of G, your 1 (tonic) on the 1st and 6th string would be recognized as the 3rd fret. If you were working in the key of C though, that same chart you'd look at the same spot as being the 8th fret. and so on.<br /> I think I get it now; do it once and then just shift it around as needed. Makes sense. I will give it a try</blockquote></p> <p>Yes. yes! And don't forget to use the big picture knowledge with actual music. Play a phrase in one position, be aware of what you've played. Look up another place where that can be answered, and shift your awareness to a new location. Soon you won't need the chart anymore, but your basic awareness of the notes will be one you can shift and move to make music. That is one way to learn the notes on the fingerboard all over as something that is three dimensional. For me, this is practicing the actual process of freedom around the fretboard with absolute <u>and</u> relative awareness, and that's the goal I had in mind when I did this.<br /> Again, I'm aware that everyone has different ways of processing information; this is only one way that worked for me in the long run.<br /> Hey, have fun when you practice... rhythmicize, sing, create. You'll learn it faster.<br /> Good luck<br /> David </p>
guitar1025 on "Learning the fretboard" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/learning-the-fretboard#post-11075
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Sun, 17 Mar 2013 22:47:23 +0000
guitar1025 11075@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>A guy working at a guitar shop a long time ago told me about his days at MI and that he had classes with Scott Henderson who ( when he wasn't mocking kids for tapping ) would in the middle of a lecture just point at someone and exclaim " you: 3rd string 15th fret , what note is it "? ... Maybe just sneak up on yourself like that occasionally ?</blockquote></p> <p>Ha, that's awesome floatingbridge.</p> <p>As I said, I know my fretboard pretty well in terms of what notes are where (even away from the guitar). I just feel like the approach truthhertz is talking about is going to help me better to visualize the relationships between notes.</p> <p><blockquote>So if you're in the key of G, your 1 (tonic) on the 1st and 6th string would be recognized as the 3rd fret. If you were working in the key of C though, that same chart you'd look at the same spot as being the 8th fret. and so on.</blockquote></p> <p>I think I get it now; do it once and then just shift it around as needed. Makes sense. I will give it a try</p> <p>Thanks again! </p>
Floatingbridge on "Learning the fretboard" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/learning-the-fretboard#post-11074
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Sun, 17 Mar 2013 22:28:04 +0000
Floatingbridge 11074@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>A guy working at a guitar shop a long time ago told me about his days at MI and that he had classes with Scott Henderson who ( when he wasn't mocking kids for tapping ) would in the middle of a lecture just point at someone and exclaim " you: 3rd string 15th fret , what note is it "? ... Maybe just sneak up on yourself like that occasionally ? </p>
TruthHertz on "Learning the fretboard" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/learning-the-fretboard#post-11073
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Sun, 17 Mar 2013 21:48:07 +0000
TruthHertz 11073@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Hey there 1025, no need to make new ones, one two octave map of the fingerboard has everything you need. Remember everything repeats exactly at the 12th fret, and your diagram is open ended, meaning it's not there to tell you what fret you're located on, but where everything is. So if you're in the key of G, your 1 (tonic) on the 1st and 6th string would be recognized as the 3rd fret. If you were working in the key of C though, that same chart you'd look at the same spot as being the 8th fret. and so on. It's really nice because once you see the picture, you know where everything else is, and combined with the knowledge you have of the other map, the note name one, you can simply make a small mental adjustment and every key is exactly the same!<br /> David </p>
guitar1025 on "Learning the fretboard" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/learning-the-fretboard#post-11072
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Sun, 17 Mar 2013 20:55:00 +0000
guitar1025 11072@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>David,</p> <p>So based on this, you'd make a diagram for each "1?"</p> <p>I'm very interested in this approach. I feel like I already know the fretboard pretty well, but this seems like it can go a long way to really squaring all three things up, just like you said.</p> <p>If there are any materials you have you'd be willing to share, I would be forever grateful. <a href="mailto:guitar1025@gmail.com">guitar1025@gmail.com</a></p> <p>Thanks </p>
TruthHertz on "Learning the fretboard" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/learning-the-fretboard#post-11071
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Sun, 17 Mar 2013 17:42:34 +0000
TruthHertz 11071@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>On your second blank fingerboard chart put the numeric notes, 1, b2, 2 (9), #2 (-3), whatever you want to call them. Again note any patterns you see and keep this by your music stand. These are things to help you see the big picture as you're learning the details. This one is not in any key, it's just tonics and intervallic relationships, so it's literally a sliding scale in two octaves.<br /> So what would this be relative to? In other words "b2, 2(9)" of what???<br /> </blockquote><br /> Of a tonic. Y' know the 1. With this conception of the fingerboard you see a<em> relative</em> orientation. of the notes, and as you change tonal centres during the course of the changes, your tonic area changes. If you're playing How High The Moon, your 1 is going to be G, until it becomes the 1 or G minor or the II-7 of F. Then it becomes F, but can you see that when your tonal centre shifts, the position shifts on the fingerboard but the location of the intervals is the same?<br /> That's why this view is not location absolute.<br /> What is the use of this picture? Well, if you're playing something with the root on the 5th string and you're playing position, you should be able to visualize at a moment's thought the other places you can play the same thing, and where to find them on any string. This "big picture" allows you to do that. Read a piece of music and play it somewhere you're comfortable. In general, you will likely be able to find it at least one other place. That place is on the big map, and where you'd find those notes is there. Fluency in knowing the locations of the other tonics and the notes around and between those tonics will allow you to better hear what you're playing rather than just playing the dots.<br /> Don't think of knowing the notes as just knowing where to find a note arbitrarily, look at it as knowing where the melodic materials are.</p> <p>Can you see this? If not, I can explain it further, I just don't want to state the obvious if that's not what you're asking for.</p> <p>Also, in really getting to know where the notes are, get a book of atonal melodies, like Modus Novus. Learn to sing the examples, and then learn to play them with the melodies in your ear. This is REALLY useful in avoiding genre specific cliche patterns. It may seem like an oblique or more difficult path, but if you're going to become a player, it's one really powerful tool in learning to look at all notes and intervals as NOT being intimidating in any way. </p> <p>It's kind of hard to really say what you might want to spend time on since I don't know where you are in your ear and musical development. Hey, tell me a little about what you're working on, what you like to listen to, what you do on the instrument, I can't really tell.<br /> But these are things I'd work on with my students right from the start. In the long run, it strengthens the relationship between the eye, ear and fingers.<br /> David </p>
guitar1025 on "Learning the fretboard" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/learning-the-fretboard#post-11070
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Sun, 17 Mar 2013 12:33:09 +0000
guitar1025 11070@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>On your second blank fingerboard chart put the numeric notes, 1, b2, 2 (9), #2 (-3), whatever you want to call them. Again note any patterns you see and keep this by your music stand. These are things to help you see the big picture as you're learning the details. This one is not in any key, it's just tonics and intervallic relationships, so it's literally a sliding scale in two octaves.</blockquote></p> <p>So what would this be relative to? In other words "b2, 2(9)" of what??? </p>
gleepglop on "Learning the fretboard" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/learning-the-fretboard#post-11069
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Sun, 17 Mar 2013 09:29:30 +0000
gleepglop 11069@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Memorize the position of the EF and BC half step pairs on each string, then go through the strings one by one learning the natural notes on each string. You don't have to learn the positions of the black notes, you just have to learn to "see" the fingerboard like a piano.</p> <p>Here's a blog with a diagram of what I'm talking about:<br /> <a href="http://www.learnjazzstandards.com/uncategorized/learning-the-notes-on-the-guitar-fretboard/" rel="nofollow">http://www.learnjazzstandards.com/uncategorized/learning-the-notes-on-the-guitar-fretboard/</a></p> <p>I found an even nicer diagram somewhere (I have it on my computer) but I can't for the life of me figure out where I got it from. </p>
TruthHertz on "Learning the fretboard" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/learning-the-fretboard#post-11068
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Sun, 17 Mar 2013 07:38:43 +0000
TruthHertz 11068@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>I'm a big advocate of applied musicality. All the other suggestions are really great, I'll just throw in a two cents contribution, just my opinion.<br /> As a visual aid, make two charts, one of the notes on the fingerboard by note names, one by note number. Don't download it from a pdf or get it on line, just make 6 lines on a paper, put frets on it for two octaves and fill in the names. Note patterns you see and keep this by you on your music stand.</p> <p>On your second blank fingerboard chart put the numeric notes, 1, b2, 2 (9), #2 (-3), whatever you want to call them. Again note any patterns you see and keep this by your music stand. These are things to help you see the big picture as you're learning the details. This one is not in any key, it's just tonics and intervallic relationships, so it's literally a sliding scale in two octaves.</p> <p>Keep these by you until you don't need to look at them. But as you're learning and internalizing, LOOK at them. They'll open up your vision of the fingerboard around the small area you're concentrated in, and it's the hope you'll start to see relationships.</p> <p>Here's the really useful part. Take a song you know, one you like and can play in one way by memory. Take that song and phrase by phrase, find another place to play that phrase, then return to the familiar place. I assume you have a pretty good idea of where some notes are to begin with; I assume you have tunes you play without music. Use the places you know to find that same "music" in places you haven't gone before. You'll begin to see areas, not as uncharted wilderness, but as variations of the familiar. That's the way I see it in a playing situation, knowing where relationships, linear and intervallic, are all over.</p> <p>Try the same thing on one string, play a familiar phrase of a song in an unfamiliar way, along one string. But be careful not to do it blindly, that's why those charts may be a good thing to keep on the periphery during this process. Note the notes but hear the music.<br /> Use the music to teach your fingers. Use your ear to teach your eye.</p> <p>That's my small way of thinking of it.</p> <p>Hey, if you haven't yet, take a glance at Mick Goodrick's Advancing Guitarist, he has a nice way of looking at the combination of linear and position playing, and this fluency, once internalized, informs the knowledge of where the notes are.</p> <p>I hope this helps.<br /> David </p>
Floatingbridge on "Learning the fretboard" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/learning-the-fretboard#post-11067
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Sat, 16 Mar 2013 21:43:45 +0000
Floatingbridge 11067@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Through another thread here I'm reminded of how great Ted Greene was/is!!<br /> Be patient with the style of his narratives ( as he has the tendency to sometimes make things feel overly detailed- with ornamented and confusing language... almost to an exacting degree that he finds the information, points and concepts utterly CRUCIAL to internalize !!) ; his handwriting and his sometimes untidy graphs.<br /> Perhaps you'll find these links, the generous amount of information on his site and ALL his exhaustively thorough and comprehensive books very useful. </p> <p><a href="http://www.tedgreene.com/images/lessons/fundamentals/LearningNamesOfNotesOnFingerboardPage1.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.tedgreene.com/images/lessons/fundamentals/LearningNamesOfNotesOnFingerboardPage1.pdf</a></p> <p><a href="http://www.tedgreene.com/images/lessons/fundamentals/LearningNamesOfNotesOnFingerboardPage2.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.tedgreene.com/images/lessons/fundamentals/LearningNamesOfNotesOnFingerboardPage2.pdf</a> </p>
hoops on "Learning the fretboard" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/learning-the-fretboard#post-11066
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Sat, 16 Mar 2013 21:15:00 +0000
hoops 11066@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Thanks guys, I love this forum. People here rule. </p>
Pauli Poulsen on "Learning the fretboard" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/learning-the-fretboard#post-11065
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Sat, 16 Mar 2013 19:08:20 +0000
Pauli Poulsen 11065@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>For me it helped to go through all 12 notes one by one on each string in as many octaves as possible.</p> <p>So I would start with C, play it on the low E string 8th fret then 20th fret, A string 3rd fret then 15th fret, D string... etc, up to the high E string and back down. Do it as quick as you can, it should only take a few seconds. Then do the next note - I like to go in cycles of 4ths/5ths, so F, low string 1st fret then 13th fret, A string 8th fret then 20th fret, etc. etc.. Do this for all 12 notes once a day. </p> <p>I found this helped me learn where each note is on the fretboard individually without having to gauge from other notes that I'm more familiar with. </p>
Floatingbridge on "Learning the fretboard" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/learning-the-fretboard#post-11062
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Sat, 16 Mar 2013 14:07:30 +0000
Floatingbridge 11062@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Find different ways to play 1&amp;2 octaves of any note you choose . Pick chords you know and run them diatonically up the same string set for a given scale . Choose a note and build any and all intervals in either direction of the note ( as subject/ object vice versa ) and find the different string sets that any given interval can be played. </p>
hoops on "Learning the fretboard" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/learning-the-fretboard#post-11061
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Sat, 16 Mar 2013 11:47:45 +0000
hoops 11061@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>What are some methods you guys found to be useful when memorizing the notes of the fretboard? I've been practicing 7th chord inversions on every string grouping and that seems to help a lot. </p>
Floatingbridge on "Basic chord voicings until rebirth and beyond..." http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/basic-chord-viocings-until-rebirth-and-beyond#post-11051
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Wed, 13 Mar 2013 23:33:15 +0000
Floatingbridge 11051@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Just when we thought we couldn't express the same ideas again in different ( or similar ) ways, I found the thread within this forum where this issue was discussed previously.<br /> There is some additional tips or areas to work with ( arpeggi, chord qualities , etc) that get overlooked on this current pass.<br /> Others had posed great questions and ideas.<br /> Once again, poparad does a great job laying out the thinking behind stuff ( and in a slightly different way than how it's been discussed in this thread- which may provide more clarity through another lens or way of saying it ) and elucidates some of the confusing elements of the previous post(s) arpeggi fingering things.<br /> At the risk of beating a dead horse with this , the post serves more than the function of viewing 7th chords alone.</p> <p><a href="http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/abstract-from-another-forum" rel="nofollow">http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/abstract-from-another-forum</a> </p>
Floatingbridge on "Basic chord voicings until rebirth and beyond..." http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/basic-chord-viocings-until-rebirth-and-beyond#post-11049
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Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:35:03 +0000
Floatingbridge 11049@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Amazing, wilmore!! That must have been ( and still feel ) great. Jealous ! </p>