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The Kurt Rosenwinkel Forum » Tag: minor - Recent Posts http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ The Kurt Rosenwinkel Forum » Tag: minor - Recent Posts en Sat, 02 Jul 2016 07:25:23 +0000 Gesture on "New chords" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-chords#post-14018
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Thu, 26 Mar 2015 08:16:31 +0000
Gesture 14018@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>I realize this thread has been dead for 3 years but just found 2 new uses for sandemose's awesome voicing:</p> <p>6-9-7-7-5-0(5) then 7-12-10-10-8-8 (A7#9/b13) then 13-16-14-14-12-12 (DmMaj7/6/9) </p>
Andy123 on "KR Backing Tracks" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/kr-backing-tracks#post-11295
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Sun, 19 May 2013 10:33:10 +0000
Andy123 11295@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>I've just uploaded to <a href="http://www.realjazztracks.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.realjazztracks.com</a> the backing tracks for various Kurt numbers which I use. There are piano trio backings for Chords, Secret World, Minor Blues, Use of Light and Zhivago at two tempos. And Bass+Drums-only tracks for Secret World, Use of Light and Minor Blues. They're all about 12 minutes long and with a sheet of the changes I use – most from the Mel Bay KR book. All tracks are £2.99. They're listed under Kurt's name on the piano-trio and B&amp;D pages. They don't aim to be copies of any particular version, but the tempos and feels are typical, and I enjoy jamming along with them. Hope they might be of interest to others working on these great numbers. </p>
Floatingbridge on "New chords" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-chords#post-5085
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Thu, 14 Jul 2011 12:38:32 +0000
Floatingbridge 5085@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>oh, yeah this thread started with the question of how to voice min7b5&#39;s. this is one i got from peter mazza but my hands are too small to get into it very quickly the way he originally suggested it be fingered. so i modified it&#39;s fingering to suit my ability. it is for Emin7b5... it was from a stella by starlight arrangement he had.</p> <p>12-13-7-7-7-0 .fingered: 2-3-thumb-thumb-thumb-0 .</p> <p>after i realized itwas possible to do this a long time ago , it has since opened up possibilities for previously unplayable chords and unconventional ( guitar ) tonalities. use the side of your thumb as a mini capo.at first it feels a little weird but if you use your stomach/chest/peck/shoulder to support on the other side and offer the resistance that your (now ) free floating fretting hand supplied, it will feel more solid. obviously there is a whole lil&#39; world of chordal possibilities with this device and this is just one example. </p>
jazzacast55 on "New chords" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-chords#post-5083
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Thu, 14 Jul 2011 09:46:16 +0000
jazzacast55 5083@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>I love this thread!</p> <p>ok here is one for d min : x-x-0-9-6-8 and the same with different bass notes, maybe: 6-0-0-9-6-8 thum on the 6th frett</p> <p>also getting in to this shape and running it through maybe Cmajor, Fmaj9= x-8-x-0-8-5 Dmin9= x-5-x-0-5-1 Cmaj9 x-3-x-0-3-0 </p>
InWalked on "New chords" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-chords#post-5082
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Thu, 14 Jul 2011 07:54:36 +0000
InWalked 5082@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>a nice Dm9(13) 10-8-9-5-5-5 fingered 4-2-3-1-1-1 </p>
Floatingbridge on "New chords" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-chords#post-5080
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Wed, 13 Jul 2011 23:18:31 +0000
Floatingbridge 5080@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>... i like raking it from high to low on say, round midnight for when that Eb pops up as major...<br /> heeheehee </p>
Floatingbridge on "New chords" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-chords#post-5078
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Wed, 13 Jul 2011 22:55:28 +0000
Floatingbridge 5078@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>i like :<br /> x-x-15-12-13-12 / x-x-15-13-12-12/x-x-14-12-10-10...8-x-9-7-5-5- </p> <p>this is for a IIVI in C:<br /> f,g,c,e for the Dmn7, f,bA,B,E for g7( also this a tritone away would work however this voiceleads smoothly) and those other 2 ( same shape for both chords used during the Cmaj7...sorry, kinda lazy right now- don&#39;t want to spell.)</p> <p>as for just a random chord voicing i find cool, ( albeit kinda over the top and lush...which can have it&#39;s place):<br /> Ebmaj7= (from low to high...the above were aswell , hopefully that was clear)<br /> 6-6-0-0-3-3=Bb,Eb,D,G,D,G fingered: 3,4,0,0,1,1. </p>
wilmore on "New chords" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-chords#post-5076
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Wed, 13 Jul 2011 21:20:25 +0000
wilmore 5076@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>one more for the road.....x-13-14-11-10-10. to x-15-11-14-11-13. to 13-16-14-14-12-12. for minor ii-v-i in D. will Mr. Rosenwinkel be coming to the west coast anytime in the near/distant future?<br /> cheers. </p>
Joxo on "New chords" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-chords#post-5073
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Wed, 13 Jul 2011 14:50:47 +0000
Joxo 5073@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Hey</p> <p>Thanx for these voicings. I find dominats to be easier to find nice movments and voicings for than Major 7 and minor 7 with natural 5th.<br /> Any cool voicing for Maj 7 and minor 7 u guys want to share ?</p> <p>/J </p>
jazzacast55 on "New chords" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-chords#post-5071
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Mon, 11 Jul 2011 18:58:42 +0000
jazzacast55 5071@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Awesome! Thanks Kurt </p>
Basile865 on "New chords" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-chords#post-5070
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Mon, 11 Jul 2011 17:03:43 +0000
Basile865 5070@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>wow some of these are real bears to grab.</p> <p>I like this little combo: 7-8-4-6-4-4 to 6-8-5-7-5-5 to 5-7-4-6-4-4 </p>
fakejake on "New chords" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-chords#post-5067
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Mon, 11 Jul 2011 15:29:41 +0000
fakejake 5067@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>&#39;they come from being voicings of the chords in question. you use them wherever you hear them.&#39;<br /> wow, now that explains.... everything.<br /> lmao </p>
wilmore on "New chords" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-chords#post-5065
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Mon, 11 Jul 2011 10:55:45 +0000
wilmore 5065@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>good stuff! some different ways to play Kurt&#39;s D/F#7<br /> x 7 8 7 7 5. x 1 2 2 3 2. Gminmag7 is also a good sub for Emin9b5.<br /> also any voicing you find for a minor chord, move it up a minor third for the V then a major third from that for the I. the last chord in monder&#39;s sunny manitoba is 3 6 4 4 2 for a Gmag#5#11. thanks for the post Sandemose.<br /> cheers. </p>
kurtisrosenwinkel on "New chords" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-chords#post-5063
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Mon, 11 Jul 2011 10:26:59 +0000
kurtisrosenwinkel 5063@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>they come from being voicings of the chords in question. you use them wherever you hear them. </p>
jazzacast55 on "New chords" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-chords#post-5061
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Mon, 11 Jul 2011 07:31:55 +0000
jazzacast55 5061@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Hey guys, as I&#39;m kinda new to the type of chords above, I have a couple of questions,</p> <p>1: Are you guys just coming up with these shapes and maybe running them through a scale?, I&#39;m just not to sure where they are coming from.<br /> 2:Where would you likely use them as they are bigish 5 or 6 note chords, duo? trio? If it was the top 2 that sandemose posted the bass player would be playing E for the first chord and then A for the second creating a bigger sound right?<br /> If it was a duo would you still use the -7b5 with Bb in the base?<br /> Sorry for the noobie questions, was just thinking as I was learning them, great chords by the way! </p>
silverwater on "New chords" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-chords#post-5058
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Mon, 11 Jul 2011 00:36:07 +0000
silverwater 5058@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>@igor blomberg: Or you can modify it slightly: 6-9-7-7-5-5 . Then you can finger it like: 1, 4, 2, 3, 1, 1. You just have to make sure you make the barre with the side of your index finger, so you can curve it around and grab the Bb on the 6th string. I&#39;m finding this way is little bit easier for my smallish hands to grab than Kurt&#39;s way. Beautiful sound btw Sandemouse! Makes for a nice Bbmaj+5+11 chord too...</p> <p>I don&#39;t have any min7b5 chords as nice as the previous ones but I do like this move (ii V i in dm):</p> <p>x-10-x-9-11-10 x-10-11-10-10-8 x-5-x-x-5-1</p> <p>The A7 I finger like this: 2,4,2,3,1 </p>
jazznan on "New chords" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-chords#post-5035
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Sat, 09 Jul 2011 11:25:31 +0000
jazznan 5035@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Nice ones Sandemose and Kurt, thanks. I was experimenting with D/Bb for Em7b5 and Eb/A or Eb/C# for A7, and those look voicings look close to something like that, thanks again.</p> <p>One that I like for Bm7b5 is x-x-9-9-6-10 to E7 x-x-12-13-8-8</p> <p>One for Dm7b5: x-11-x-10-8-12 to G7 x-13-x-12-9-13 </p>
kurtisrosenwinkel on "New chords" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-chords#post-5034
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Sat, 09 Jul 2011 10:04:37 +0000
kurtisrosenwinkel 5034@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>i love that voicing, sandemose. i use my thumb for the Bb, then 4,2,3,1,1. i also like this one:</p> <p>6-7-x-7-7-5. this moves to: 5-x-8-8-6</p> <p>best,<br /> Kurt </p>
igor.blomberg on "New chords" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-chords#post-5033
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Sat, 09 Jul 2011 08:42:43 +0000
igor.blomberg 5033@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>How do you place your fingers in those voicings? </p>
Sandemose on "New chords" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/new-chords#post-5031
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Sat, 09 Jul 2011 04:45:58 +0000
Sandemose 5031@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Found this minor7b5 chord yesterday. I really liked it. Any more minor7b5 chords you like to use and in which songs and how (share your moves!)</p> <p>6-9-7-7-5-0 (moves nice to) 6-8-7-6-5-0 (A7) in Stella by starlight.</p> <p>best, Sandemose </p>
jorgemg1984 on "Pat Martino's Minor Conversion" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pat-martinos-minor-conversion#post-4318
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Mon, 11 Apr 2011 16:39:13 +0000
jorgemg1984 4318@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Yes, I agree with you Matt, I am just saying to also take care of the intuitive side of music (which I some times feel lacks in Pat Martino`s music). I think Coltrane is probably the best example of someone who developed both intellectuality and intuition to the limit... </p>
Matt on "Pat Martino's Minor Conversion" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pat-martinos-minor-conversion#post-4315
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Mon, 11 Apr 2011 12:04:42 +0000
Matt 4315@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>if there was no intellectuality in music there would be no music. </p>
Floatingbridge on "Pat Martino's Minor Conversion" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pat-martinos-minor-conversion#post-4314
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Mon, 11 Apr 2011 10:53:37 +0000
Floatingbridge 4314@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>I&#39;m not dissuading from the intellectualization of the playing experience; I&#39;m claiming that this is just not as rocket science as purported to be or presented as. </p>
jorgemg1984 on "Pat Martino's Minor Conversion" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pat-martinos-minor-conversion#post-4313
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Mon, 11 Apr 2011 07:46:00 +0000
jorgemg1984 4313@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Intellectualizing is not a bad thing as long as you dont lose your intuition... Kurt talks about that a lot on some interviews, thats where &quot;The Next Step&quot; came from, he &quot;knew too much&quot; and needed to come back to his roots and be more intuitive (thats way he changed the tuning on his guitar)</p> <p>All those systems people talk about are sort of an &quot;holy grail&quot; search - people think if they learn the minor system they will play like Pat Martino (they also think if they use 015 flat strings and an AI amp they will have his sound). There is way too many books or learning systems that claim to be the &quot;ultimate way to learn jazz&quot;... Every penny you spent on that you better spent on good records and transcribe them (there are some excellent jazz books, but most ones are just made to sell an easy way to something thats not easy at all, you need to pratice a lot in order to be a good jazz player, period). </p>
Floatingbridge on "Pat Martino's Minor Conversion" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pat-martinos-minor-conversion#post-4310
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Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:52:50 +0000
Floatingbridge 4310@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>intellectualizing what to what extent? he is not monder.it can feel like making something more intense than it has to be.sometimes you can just say &quot;7&quot; instead of &quot; the square root of 49&quot;, you know? </p>
bingefeller on "Pat Martino's Minor Conversion" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pat-martinos-minor-conversion#post-4309
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Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:37:40 +0000
bingefeller 4309@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>@jorgemg1984 &quot;I think the trick on jazz is basically to find what works for you...&quot; </p> <p>I agree 100%. :-) </p> <p>Thing about Martino is he&#39;s very, very intelligent and that he does intellictualise his ideas a lot. A little too much for me to be honest. </p>
jorgemg1984 on "Pat Martino's Minor Conversion" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pat-martinos-minor-conversion#post-4307
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Mon, 11 Apr 2011 05:56:13 +0000
jorgemg1984 4307@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>I personally take exactly the opposite way on this. Its impossible for me to know Bm7b5 or Bdim7 on all the dominant chords - I always think numbers, 3 5 7 9 or 3 5 7 b9. I do this to all the possible triads on a dominant chord, be it mixolydian , lydian dominant, altered or diminished. I tried for a long time to memorize the triads, but I just cant. Numbers is the way to go for me (on all chords actually, not just dominants), I cant think by the actual notes or triads.</p> <p>I think the trick on jazz is basically to find what works for you... </p>
JorgeRubiales on "Pat Martino's Minor Conversion" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pat-martinos-minor-conversion#post-4305
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Mon, 11 Apr 2011 03:01:33 +0000
JorgeRubiales 4305@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Well, I remember that some time ago I found on internet some kind of book or alike apparently written by martino, explaining the system.<br /> Other than some mystical I-ching related stuff to justify his choice (which I see totally unnecesary, I mean, you can play whatever you want don&#39;t you?), I think the key here is to know your substitutins. I pretty much suck at this right now, but it comes with time. Just knowing that you can play Bm7b5 or Bº7 over G7 if you want a G9 or a G7b9...that&#39;s the beggining, and where I am.</p> <p>Then it&#39;s mostly a matter of SOUND basically, and it doesn&#39;t relate too much to traditional harmony. I&#39;m not there yet, because I can&#39;t hear the chord sound in advance, but my teacher has shown me how he does it and its mostly a thing of sound (clashing a 7 with b7, which in theory is wrong, can be a beautiful sound depending on the context, that kind of things). </p>
Floatingbridge on "Pat Martino's Minor Conversion" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pat-martinos-minor-conversion#post-4302
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Mon, 11 Apr 2011 00:37:23 +0000
Floatingbridge 4302@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>... there are alot of licks that seem to get displaced at choice distances. certain pentatonic/blues patterns over V7 chords move in dim7 ( min3rds) creating different tensions. less tense, playing minor pentatonic licks at all the minor points( cmaj7: amin7,dmin7,emin7 and even at b min7).<br /> i feel what you are saying jorge. a teacher of mine showed me some things of his however made the disclaimer that in the book or dvd he always made things sound way more intellectual and complex than it had to be or was ultimately. another teacher studied with him and he seemed very adamant about shapes and patterns and even had certain systems for chord melody (which sounded cool) however felt like static set of principles rather than JUST 1 way to view chord melody ( which came down to a system of a grip that for every scale tone at the highest voice any given 7 type chord that was called for... the problem seemed that the other voices albeit contained the correct tones, the voiceleading seemed sometimes jarring and not considering where it came from or where it was going with this philosophy). i dont want to knock the approach too much because it the guy was super good. basically, despite me going there for a guitar lesson i feel that there was<br /> some real static guitar minutae things ( which are really instantly tangible and fulfill something) over a more longhaul music fundamentals ( as applied to the guitar) type thing. Honestly, i feel like pat martino would do the pat martino without much consideration of who he is playing with at that given moment and what they&#39;re doing. then again, he taught himself how to play after an aneurysm so who cares. </p>
jorgemg1984 on "Pat Martino's Minor Conversion" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pat-martinos-minor-conversion#post-4297
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Sun, 10 Apr 2011 14:54:41 +0000
jorgemg1984 4297@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>He got that from Wes I suppose... Wes played the 4th a lot on dominant chords (thinking Gm7 on C7 chord as rubiales said). As about simplifying, it depends I guess. For me is really complicated to always relate to minor on all chords but try it on some tunes and see if it works for you. But I think its a very personal approach that works for Pat himself (but I am not a very big Martino fan actually). </p>