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The Kurt Rosenwinkel Forum » Tag: Pentatonics - Recent Posts http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ The Kurt Rosenwinkel Forum » Tag: Pentatonics - Recent Posts en Thu, 30 Jun 2016 04:54:51 +0000 Nick55 on "Jazz Harmony - Pentatonics and Minor 6 shapes of 7 chords" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/jazz-harmony-pentatonics-and-minor-6-shapes-of-7-chords#post-13903
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Sat, 10 Jan 2015 00:27:21 +0000
Nick55 13903@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Been thinking about this stuff<br /> It’s great!</p> <p>First Pentatonics</p> <p>So – Eb = C7 blues etc<br /> Also for C7<br /> You can have Bb pent<br /> And F pent [C7sus]</p> <p>..and C of course. Nice to have really inside sound for contrast<br /> And...<br /> G pent = turn it into a maj 7 — why not! You’re allowed! It’s cool<br /> ....so while you’re at it – can also use D pent {still turning the C7 into a Cmaj7}</p> <p>A pent and you’re gone into fairy land<br /> Same with E, B and F# pents<br /> - but you can weave a maze of logic to make them work ..forget that for the time being.<br /> (Smooth and Sweet for now)</p> <p>Ab pent – and It’s now either C7alt or a dark c minor</p> <p>And last one: Db pentatonic scale: basically could be one of three:<br /> even darker c minor<br /> C7sus b13, b9 ...with a passing #9? ..could be something like that<br /> and; you could just be crazy man and just be going up a semitone and out, wild, wow!!!</p> <p>---</p> <p>Now to minor 6 shapes<br /> Let’s move away from our C centricity for a moment</p> <p>We’ll focus it all on F7 {F, Eb, A}</p> <p>C minor six shape (C, Eb, G, A) -- cute!<br /> D ,, ,, ,, ...extra cute!<br /> F ,, ,, ,, bluesy, cool<br /> Ab ,, ,, ,, extra bluesy man! - really cool cause can be just blues scale like; altered scale; or same as one below[next]:<br /> B ,, ,, ,, out! But NOT out. Fantastic (= F7 13 #11 b9 #9) = diminished scale also<br /> F# ,, ,, ,, beautiful. Altered.</p> <p>So the first four a pretty much inside<br /> Then last two get weird but very groovy</p> <p>And there are two more sneaky ones do you want to know about them?<br /> Ok<br /> They both make our friend F7 into F7 sus — one w a flat nine, the other with a flat 13<br /> ...but you really do not have to be all intellectually aware of these finer details. Just learn them. Just mix them up.<br /> Eb minor six shape<br /> Bb ,, ,, ,, </p>
Floatingbridge on "Yamaguchi: Pentatonicism in Jazz" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/yamaguchi-pentatonicism-in-jazz#post-7616
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Wed, 30 May 2012 13:57:47 +0000
Floatingbridge 7616@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>A lot of the pentatonics in the book he is referring to are not the ones McCoy is using. </p>
Matt on "Yamaguchi: Pentatonicism in Jazz" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/yamaguchi-pentatonicism-in-jazz#post-7613
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Wed, 30 May 2012 10:48:03 +0000
Matt 7613@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>i've transcribed a few lines of Shaw on the Unity album but so far i've only registered them as sidesteps or enclosures, like surrounding a G-7 w/ Ab and Gb major on a ii-V, etc. </p>
jorgemg1984 on "Yamaguchi: Pentatonicism in Jazz" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/yamaguchi-pentatonicism-in-jazz#post-7606
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Tue, 29 May 2012 19:09:50 +0000
jorgemg1984 7606@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Woody Shaw is the master of pentatonics, no doubt. Check Bergonzi's book, it's very good! </p>
Quintricacy on "Yamaguchi: Pentatonicism in Jazz" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/yamaguchi-pentatonicism-in-jazz#post-7605
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Tue, 29 May 2012 18:34:28 +0000
Quintricacy 7605@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>I think listening to players who use pentatonics would help a lot. It sometimes can be hard to apply something without any reference point so you should definitely listen to Woody Shaw and McCoy Tyner from the Coltrane period. Personally I prefer Woody Shaw's use of pentatonics over McCoy but they're both incredible </p>
Floatingbridge on "Yamaguchi: Pentatonicism in Jazz" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/yamaguchi-pentatonicism-in-jazz#post-7594
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Mon, 28 May 2012 16:08:06 +0000
Floatingbridge 7594@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>It may be stuff you can use for yourself in your own work. It might not be the kind of thing that you can just drop on have you met miss jones. I mean , he almost boastfully ( in as boastful as a dry manual can be) provides the additional scales and permutation missing from the slonimsky book. That said, even with that material it was based on the tritone so naturally it can be woven into the territory of the V chord. I've been playing around with little ( not big ' twelve tone' but ) twelve tone ideas that just weave a discreet path and wrap themselves up in little bows of their own logic. Complete little structures with all twelve notes, you know? Maybe not much will come out to be useful in standards land , but the few ones that do ( or even fragments thereof ) can be ways of ornamenting certain chord tones or pivot points in standard cadences. </p>
Matt on "Yamaguchi: Pentatonicism in Jazz" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/yamaguchi-pentatonicism-in-jazz#post-7593
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Mon, 28 May 2012 12:55:35 +0000
Matt 7593@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>so i bought this book about a year ago and have practiced the formulas in it for the major pentatonics but i'm having difficulty conceptualizing the uses for the other pentatonics. if anyone has any guidance on how i can derive more use from this book, please help! </p>
geetarted on "Pentatonics" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pentatonics#post-4133
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Thu, 24 Mar 2011 21:10:17 +0000
geetarted 4133@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Straight up minor pent. Chords get a Holdsworth vibe and the inversions and permutations get into Bergonzi territory. Simple, but tons of possible lines in positions or stretched out on 2 or 3 strings.... etc.. It&#39;s a wee bit messy but it works for my skype students.</p> <p><a href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/51502361/Penatonic-Voicings-Inversions-and-Permutations" rel="nofollow">http://www.scribd.com/doc/51502361/Penatonic-Voicings-Inversions-and-Permutations</a> </p>
horg on "Pentatonics" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pentatonics#post-3827
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Wed, 02 Feb 2011 13:56:14 +0000
horg 3827@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>silverwater, THANK YOU. I&#39;ve been trying out everything on your chart. I feel like I&#39;ve learned so much in just 2 hours...it&#39;s insane. Thanks for posting that. Also, Bruce Saunders page is pretty amazing. Man...so much stuff to practice. </p>
silverwater on "Pentatonics" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pentatonics#post-3800
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Mon, 31 Jan 2011 01:10:37 +0000
silverwater 3800@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>C Minor 6 pentatonic: C, Eb, F, G, A (basically, the nat6th is substituted for the b7)</p> <p>C Whole tone Pentatonic: C, E, Gb, Ab, Bb (basically a C whole tone scale, minus the second note)</p> <p>For me, playing whole tone pentatonics comes down to two things: knowing your whole tone scales, and then knowing which note to leave out. </p>
david6strings on "Pentatonics" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pentatonics#post-3770
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Sun, 23 Jan 2011 14:38:10 +0000
david6strings 3770@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>im wondering the same. i guess min6 one must be an -6 arpeggio with the fourth added but no idea about the whole tone one </p>
Matt on "Pentatonics" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pentatonics#post-3769
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Sun, 23 Jan 2011 13:42:12 +0000
Matt 3769@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>noob question here - what&#39;s the whole tone pentatonic, and the min6 one? </p>
jazznan on "Pentatonics" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pentatonics#post-3757
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Fri, 21 Jan 2011 14:20:23 +0000
jazznan 3757@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Here&#39;s a cool lesson by Vic Juris on pentatonics: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7uX6FNMn7c" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7uX6FNMn7c</a> </p>
Matt on "Pentatonics" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pentatonics#post-3756
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Fri, 21 Jan 2011 13:58:10 +0000
Matt 3756@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>that&#39;s a nice chart! really is. </p>
silverwater on "Pentatonics" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pentatonics#post-3755
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Thu, 20 Jan 2011 21:36:40 +0000
silverwater 3755@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>I&#39;ve been compiling the pentatonic sounds I like to play over changes, and have a chart on my wall. I know there are more sounds out there, but you can&#39;t start with everything or you&#39;ll end up learning nothing.</p> <p> It includes the minor 6 pentatonic and the whole tone pentatonic scales. Here&#39;s what it currently looks like:</p> <p>Cmaj7:</p> <p>- Cmaj pent.</p> <p>- Emin pent.</p> <p>- Bmin pent.</p> <p>- Amin6 pent.</p> <p>Cmin7: </p> <p>- Cmin pent.</p> <p>- Cmin6 pent.</p> <p>- Gmin pent</p> <p>- Dmin pent.</p> <p>C7 (alt sound):</p> <p>- C#m6 pent</p> <p>- Ebmin pent.</p> <p>- Ebmin6 pent.</p> <p>- C whole tone pent.</p> <p>C7 (b9 nat13):</p> <p>- A whole tone pent</p> <p>C7 (9 #11 13):</p> <p>- Gmin6 pent</p> <p>- Amin6 pent</p> <p>- F# whole tone pent.</p> <p>Cm7b5:</p> <p>- Ebm6 pent</p> <p>- Fmin6 pent (nat9 sound)</p> <p>- D whole tone pent (nat9 sound)</p> <p>Cmaj7 #5 #11:</p> <p>- Bmin6 pent</p> <p>C-maj7:</p> <p>- B whole tone pent. (good on Nica&#39;s Dream!)</p> <p>- Dmin6 pent</p> <p>Quick ii V (C-7 to F7, Diatonic sound) [I like to use these for tunes that have those quick little ii v that are away from the key center, like in &quot;Four&quot;]:</p> <p>- Cmin pent.</p> <p>- Cmin6 pent.</p> <p>- D min6 pent</p> <p>Quick ii V (altered sound):</p> <p>- Just ignore the ii and use the options for the altered V!</p> <p>ii V I sounds: (Cm7-F7-Bbmaj7) [I overuse the hell out of these two]</p> <p>- Cmin pent, Ebmin pent, Dmin pent</p> <p>- Gmin pent, Abmin pent, Amin pent</p> <p>I don&#39;t know how much good this chart will do anyone, since discovering this shit on your own makes it way more likely you&#39;ll use it your playing (at least for me), but there you go. </p>
natjanoff on "Pentatonics" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pentatonics#post-3746
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Wed, 19 Jan 2011 01:43:37 +0000
natjanoff 3746@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Yamaguchi&#39;s books are great, I just think that the Saunders book is easier to use initially. However I have all of Yamaguchi&#39;s books. Very useful and worth getting. </p>
Floatingbridge on "Pentatonics" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pentatonics#post-3745
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Wed, 19 Jan 2011 01:35:39 +0000
Floatingbridge 3745@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p><a href="http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/masaya-yamaguchi-bookzz" rel="nofollow">http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/masaya-yamaguchi-bookzz</a> </p>
natjanoff on "Pentatonics" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pentatonics#post-3735
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Tue, 18 Jan 2011 13:05:25 +0000
natjanoff 3735@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>I really like Bruce Saunders books. Their all great, especially the Pentatonics one. I think it&#39;s called<br /> &quot; Jazz Pentatonics &quot; Really great!</p> <p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Mel-Bay-presents-Jazz-Pentatonics/dp/078667167X/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1295382564&amp;sr=1-2" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Mel-Bay-presents-Jazz-Pentatonics/dp/078667167X/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1295382564&amp;sr=1-2</a></p> <p> <a href="http://www.natjanoff.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.natjanoff.com</a> </p>
jimjazz on "Pentatonics" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pentatonics#post-3705
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Sun, 16 Jan 2011 14:42:13 +0000
jimjazz 3705@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Yeah, its great isn&#39;t it! I have his c.d 8x5 which I like a lot, a player really deserving of wider exposure. </p>
Timbo on "Pentatonics" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pentatonics#post-3703
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Sun, 16 Jan 2011 12:52:35 +0000
Timbo 3703@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>That Bruce Saunders page is a goldmine. Dropping everything to go into the shed right now. </p>
jimjazz on "Pentatonics" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pentatonics#post-3701
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Sun, 16 Jan 2011 11:38:13 +0000
jimjazz 3701@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>That Miles Okazaki stuff looks great, realise I&#39;ve seen him before backing Jane Monheit.</p> <p>Bruce Saunders has some stuff on his website, he&#39;s a great player and his site is stuffed full of transcriptions and lessons.</p> <p><a href="http://www.brucesaunders.com/lessons1.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.brucesaunders.com/lessons1.html</a></p> <p>I also really enjoyed Scott Henderson&#39; video &#39;Jazz Fusion Improvisation&#39; which has a lot on pentatonics. </p>
steepcreeks on "Pentatonics" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pentatonics#post-3699
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Sat, 15 Jan 2011 22:52:43 +0000
steepcreeks 3699@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>wow, neat stuff, thanks Quintricacy </p>
Quintricacy on "Pentatonics" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pentatonics#post-3698
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Sat, 15 Jan 2011 21:59:28 +0000
Quintricacy 3698@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Here&#39;s some stuff from Miles Okazaki. He&#39;s a pretty interesting guy and has some really nice ideas and can play the guitar pretty good too. I strongly recommend getting his album Mirror, it&#39;s killer. The first thing seems daunting at first, but just study the diagram on the top left and it makes sense.</p> <p><a href="http://milesokazaki.com/pentatonic.html" rel="nofollow">http://milesokazaki.com/pentatonic.html</a></p> <p><a href="http://milesokazaki.com/guitar.html" rel="nofollow">http://milesokazaki.com/guitar.html</a> </p>
steepcreeks on "Pentatonics" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/pentatonics#post-3697
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Sat, 15 Jan 2011 20:29:32 +0000
steepcreeks 3697@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>I&#39;m trying to dig further into pentatonic ideas. Anything anyone would like to share: voicings, exercises, substitutions, patterns, sounds.<br /> I&#39;ve seen this pattern of Kurt&#39;s and been mixing it up as many ways I can think of (<a href="http://www.vimeo.com/1397394" rel="nofollow">http://www.vimeo.com/1397394</a>)<br /> I also just purchased Bergonzi&#39;s book on Pentatonic studies (haven&#39;t received it yet) </p>