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The Kurt Rosenwinkel Forum » Topic: What do you play when soloing over sus chords? http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ The Kurt Rosenwinkel Forum » Topic: What do you play when soloing over sus chords? en Mon, 27 Jun 2016 18:27:50 +0000 Floatingbridge on "What do you play when soloing over sus chords?" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/what-do-you-play-when-soloing-over-sus-chords#post-5426
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Sun, 21 Aug 2011 22:55:36 +0000
Floatingbridge 5426@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>@arewolfe: hahahaha ! Hell yes. It is like this huge non statement. It has certain boring applications that often lead to 70&#39;s tv...<br /> Add9 ( like gmaj triad with a in bass ) risks this often but somehow feels more warm and comfy. </p>
Floatingbridge on "What do you play when soloing over sus chords?" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/what-do-you-play-when-soloing-over-sus-chords#post-5425
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Sun, 21 Aug 2011 22:26:49 +0000
Floatingbridge 5425@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>@arewolfe: hahahaha ! Hell yes. It is like this huge non statement. It has certain boring applications that often lead to 70&#39;s tv...<br /> Add9 ( like gmaj triad with a in bass ) risks this often but somehow feels more warm and comfy. </p>
jazznan on "What do you play when soloing over sus chords?" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/what-do-you-play-when-soloing-over-sus-chords#post-5421
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Sun, 21 Aug 2011 20:38:36 +0000
jazznan 5421@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>I always associate that sound with things I&#39;ve heard Brad Mehldau play </p>
jazznan on "What do you play when soloing over sus chords?" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/what-do-you-play-when-soloing-over-sus-chords#post-5420
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Sun, 21 Aug 2011 20:38:36 +0000
jazznan 5420@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>I always associate that sound with things I&#39;ve heard Brad Mehldau play </p>
arewolfe on "What do you play when soloing over sus chords?" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/what-do-you-play-when-soloing-over-sus-chords#post-5419
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Sun, 21 Aug 2011 20:20:15 +0000
arewolfe 5419@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>I&#39;ve always hated the sound of 7sus4 chords. I usually just stick to notes in the chord or wait til it passes. My ears hate the sound of stacked 4ths in general. Sus7(b9) is a different world though... I love that one. I think All The Way To Rajasthan is based off that sound - might be wrong though. </p>
jorgemg1984 on "What do you play when soloing over sus chords?" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/what-do-you-play-when-soloing-over-sus-chords#post-5392
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Thu, 18 Aug 2011 08:00:37 +0000
jorgemg1984 5392@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Usually sus4b9 chords appear on two occasions on standard tunes: G7sus4b9 resolving to Cmaj7 (usually the melody has the 4 so you cant use a regular dominant) or in minor keys G7sus4b9 going to Am7 - so V7sus4b9 Imaj7 or bVIIsus4b9 Im7. The first one appears on It Could Happen to You and the second one on Corcovado. I think McCoy Tyner was one of the first guys using this chords a lot and he usually played the second mode of melodic minor (phrygian 13, I prefer this name to doric b2 because they sound much more like phrygian than dorian to me)</p> <p>A good way to think these chords is the altered scale because usually we have a lot of resolutions of this scale - so E7alt / G going to Cmaj7 or E7alt / G going to Am7. The first one is very well explained on a book called &quot;Metaphors for the Musicians&quot; called &quot;New Ways of Going Home&quot; I think. The second one is a basic V I cadence with the V in a odd root. </p>
jazznan on "What do you play when soloing over sus chords?" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/what-do-you-play-when-soloing-over-sus-chords#post-5390
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Thu, 18 Aug 2011 02:07:22 +0000
jazznan 5390@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Cool, thanks...I&#39;m going to work on them. </p>
silverwater on "What do you play when soloing over sus chords?" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/what-do-you-play-when-soloing-over-sus-chords#post-5389
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Thu, 18 Aug 2011 00:18:15 +0000
silverwater 5389@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Oh, all right. I interpreted it as some sort of a challenge, but if it&#39;s for demonstrative/instructional purposes then ok. Although I don&#39;t know how much help it my shitty little video will be. Not only did I have to play quietly because it&#39;s late, I wasn&#39;t even showing the fretboard to the camera, which would kind of be the point of making a video demonstration, no? </p> <p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA_IMdIgIww" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA_IMdIgIww</a></p> <p>Those are the 8 sounds I listed in my earlier comment, 16 bars of each, played in the same order as my list. If anybody is interested I could do the same thing for demonstrating different sounds to play over a ii V I, maybe this time I&#39;ll get the production part right.</p> <p>As a side note, this is actually an interesting and effective way to practice. I&#39;ve never used time limits before moving on to something else, I&#39;m going to have to start doing this more often. </p>
jazzacast55 on "What do you play when soloing over sus chords?" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/what-do-you-play-when-soloing-over-sus-chords#post-5375
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Wed, 17 Aug 2011 03:32:04 +0000
jazzacast55 5375@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>This is great guys thanks so much, there is little info in the books I have or online to deal with sus chords, this will keep me busy for a while! </p>
jazznan on "What do you play when soloing over sus chords?" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/what-do-you-play-when-soloing-over-sus-chords#post-5374
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Wed, 17 Aug 2011 02:23:47 +0000
jazznan 5374@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Okay, thanks, not &quot;calling you out&quot;, just wanted to see an example of you playing them is all. </p>
silverwater on "What do you play when soloing over sus chords?" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/what-do-you-play-when-soloing-over-sus-chords#post-5373
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Wed, 17 Aug 2011 01:41:40 +0000
silverwater 5373@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Hi jazznan, no offense taken. It&#39;s not something taken from a textbook, or one textbook in particular. It&#39;s just that I ran into sus4b9 chords a couple of times while playing with people, and after flubbing through them I was properly motivated to sit home and figure out some ways to play on them. I&#39;d say half are from books or outside sources, half I figured out (any scale or mode of with the R b2 P4 b7 will work over that chord). The idea for playing the second mode of Harmonic Minor I got from transcribing Kurt&#39;s solo on Invitation. </p> <p>I&#39;m also a person who writes things down. This and many other things are taped my wall where I practice, to serve as reminders.</p> <p>I&#39;m not Rain Man and make all the scales appear in my mind the instant this or any other chord comes up, if that&#39;s what you were asking. But yeah that is how I think when I play, except I don&#39;t really think about Harmonic Major, because first I figured out that playing Mixolydian scale but flatting the 9th would give me the notes I wanted to hear sometimes on a V chord in a major key, only later to have someone tell me that theorists actually call this the 5th degree of the Harmonic Major scale, a scale I had never heard of. But I had already learned to play &quot;Mixo b9&quot;, so that&#39;s what I go with. I also &quot;discovered&quot; the third mode of harmonic major works amazing over dominant chords in a minor key. </p> <p>- Dorian b2 is easy. I know all my dorian scales well of course, and since I know what the b2 of any given tonal center is, having practiced mixo b9, it&#39;s easy just play that.</p> <p>- Phyrigian is just a mode of the major scale, b2 b3 b6 b7...anyone worth their salt can recall all the major modes from all or almost all roots.</p> <p>- The modes of harmonic minor I haven&#39;t gotten to a point yet where I can use them by just thinking about the degrees from the root (meaning when I play F harmonic minor over a C7 chord I still have to think &quot;I&#39;m playing F harmonic minor now&quot;, as opposed to &quot;Let&#39;s play C with a b2, b6, b7&quot;)</p> <p>- I practice the shit out of Whole Tone pentatonics.</p> <p>- the sus4 b9 arpeggio I could whip out on only a couple roots at this point.</p> <p>- The last one (Thanks to willmore for pointing out it being the fifth mode of Hungarian Minor, I always think of it a that as &quot;F Arab&quot; though because it sounds so damn middle eastern) I only know right now starting from F and C. It&#39;s easy to play a major scale from any root and flat the 2nd and 6th degrees, it&#39;s another to recall those notes instantly in the moment.</p> <p>No, I&#39;m not going to make a youtube video proving that I can play these scales because someone on a forum is calling me out. I don&#39;t know you and I&#39;ve got nothing to prove to you. I&#39;m only writing this long-winded post (and other long-winded posts on this forum for that fact) because explaining things to other people is the best way to clarify things in my own mind. </p> <p>Yes, I actually use them, though I&#39;m actually trying to use them less, meaning the goal is to have the sounds ingrained so instead of &quot;what scale am I playing?&quot; I can think &quot;What sound do I want to hear?&quot; and know the notes that will get me that sound. I don&#39;t know where you&#39;re at as a player, but unless you&#39;re still at a point where all the sounds you use come from recalling memorized fingering patterns, it really shouldn&#39;t be unbelievable that a person could use these things in their playing. </p>
jazznan on "What do you play when soloing over sus chords?" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/what-do-you-play-when-soloing-over-sus-chords#post-5366
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Tue, 16 Aug 2011 14:51:12 +0000
jazznan 5366@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Silverwater, no offense, but that looks like something from a textbook....you can actually think like that while improvising? Can you post a youtube vid of you doing that? I get that they are ideas, but do you actually use them? </p>
wilmore on "What do you play when soloing over sus chords?" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/what-do-you-play-when-soloing-over-sus-chords#post-5365
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Tue, 16 Aug 2011 10:21:35 +0000
wilmore 5365@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>hi silverwater, cool ideas. that last scale is the 5th mode of Bb hungarian minor. or a root position gypsy major(as ted green calls it).</p> <p>cheers </p>
silverwater on "What do you play when soloing over sus chords?" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/what-do-you-play-when-soloing-over-sus-chords#post-5363
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Tue, 16 Aug 2011 02:52:02 +0000
silverwater 5363@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>C7sus4</p> <p>- Mixolydian, (or maybe think G dorian)</p> <p>- Sus4 arpeggio</p> <p>- Gm Pentationic</p> <p>- Dm pentatonic</p> <p>sus4b9 is a cool sound too, you could throw in these sounds regardless if it&#39;s marked as such:</p> <p>C7sus4(b9)</p> <p>- F harmonic major (It&#39;s a major scale with a b6)</p> <p>- C Dorian b2 (Bb melodic minor)</p> <p>- C Phyrigian</p> <p>- Bb harmonic minor</p> <p>- F harmonic minor</p> <p>- A whole tone pentatonic (A C# D# F G)</p> <p>- Sus4b9 arpeggio, C Db F G Bb. (An interesting Pentatonic sound)</p> <p>- F major scale with b2 and b6 (F Gb A Bb C Db E) I&#39;m not exactly sure what this is called, but it&#39;s definitely an eastern thing with its two consecutive half steps (E F Gb) and the abundance of minor thirds. I think Woody Shaw used this on Little Red&#39;s Fantasy... </p>
JorgeRubiales on "What do you play when soloing over sus chords?" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/what-do-you-play-when-soloing-over-sus-chords#post-5358
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Mon, 15 Aug 2011 18:06:22 +0000
JorgeRubiales 5358@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>I&#39;ll play with the major pentatonic from the b7, so Dsus4=C major pentatonic. It gives you the arpeggio plus the 9th </p>
jazznan on "What do you play when soloing over sus chords?" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/what-do-you-play-when-soloing-over-sus-chords#post-5356
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Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:18:53 +0000
jazznan 5356@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>both the sus chords are good for going to the iii chord in the key of Eb, Gminor and Dminor in Bb, so it&#39;s really the first two chords are in Eb and the next two are in Bb, or G minor and D minor </p>
geetarted on "What do you play when soloing over sus chords?" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/what-do-you-play-when-soloing-over-sus-chords#post-5355
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Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:06:40 +0000
geetarted 5355@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Just looking at your chord progression I would say straight up D minor pentatonic for all. chromatic playing/approach notes around chord tones.. but D minor nails it and keeps it simple. A big part of Modern Jazz playing is about making the complicated seem/sound simple. </p>
Floatingbridge on "What do you play when soloing over sus chords?" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/what-do-you-play-when-soloing-over-sus-chords#post-5351
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Sun, 14 Aug 2011 15:31:26 +0000
Floatingbridge 5351@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>The first thing that came to mind is almost inherently in your progression:<br /> I would view the Ebmaj7 as Lydian ( so # 11) and I outline these tones by playing the Dsus...<br /> I view the first two chords as part of the same thing and those other two chords as the sane concept as the previous only backwards and in a different tonal center ... So I am seeing two chord / vibes rather than 4 (... For this specific idea ). I use the sus to state the juicy parts of the Lydian ( Dsus=Ebmaj7#11 and vice versa) to expand this particular tonality , you can okay min7b5 stuff off of the #11 of that chord :<br /> Dsus=Ebmaj7#11=Amn7b5. </p>
jorgemg1984 on "What do you play when soloing over sus chords?" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/what-do-you-play-when-soloing-over-sus-chords#post-5348
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Sun, 14 Aug 2011 14:22:29 +0000
jorgemg1984 5348@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>I find it easier to think Dm7 / G than Gsus4. </p>
Matt on "What do you play when soloing over sus chords?" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/what-do-you-play-when-soloing-over-sus-chords#post-5347
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Sun, 14 Aug 2011 11:59:21 +0000
Matt 5347@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>diatonic triads sound really good over sus chords.<br /> i&#39;d also use pentatonics that contain the 3 and b7 with tensions, ie #11, b9, etc. </p>
Poparad on "What do you play when soloing over sus chords?" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/what-do-you-play-when-soloing-over-sus-chords#post-5346
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Sun, 14 Aug 2011 10:52:11 +0000
Poparad 5346@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Those are things I&#39;d do as well. Additionally, this one&#39;s really basic, but you can play minor pentatonic from the 5th. So on the Dsus4, play Am pentatonic. Related to that, Cmaj7 over Dsus4 hits most of the interesting notes. </p>
jazzacast55 on "What do you play when soloing over sus chords?" http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/topic/what-do-you-play-when-soloing-over-sus-chords#post-5345
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Sun, 14 Aug 2011 10:29:59 +0000
jazzacast55 5345@http://www.kurtrosenwinkel.com/forum/ <p>Hey guys,</p> <p>I wrote a tune lately and there happens to be quite a few sus chords in there.<br /> Now at the moment I&#39;m using mixolydian or a 4 note cell: b7, 1, 3, 4, so if it was Csus4 I have been playing Bb, C, E, F.<br /> I&#39;m just interested in what you guys play over them.<br /> If your interested in the chord progression, it is the following (2bars each, medium tempo)</p> <p>Ebmaj7|Dsus4|Asus4|Bbmaj7</p> <p>Cheers </p>