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<br/> <b>Strict Standards</b>: Non-static method BP_Options::get() should not be called statically in <b>/home/actidemann/</b> on line <b>9</b><br/> Chord Voicing « The Kurt Rosenwinkel Forum

Chord Voicing

(12 posts)
  1. guitar1025

    Hey guys!

    I was messing around with this voicing today while I was practicing:


    This is a voicing that I have seen A LOT, whether it's in videos on YouTube or watching guitarists up close. Can anyone tell me the derivation of it?? I've been messing around with it in the usual way; playing it chromatically over a pedal to see all of the possible uses for it. From that alone I can see WHY I see it so often. Just curious where it actually comes from.

    Thanks guys!

  2. david6strings

    i think i dont get you. This is a Cadd9/E a triad with the t9. is what you are asking or not?

  3. guitar1025

    Yes and no. I guess I should have been more specific. I was referring more to the shape. It's a shape that I see a lot; moved around a lot for various chords and I was wondering what the derivation is for example;

    xx3555 is a drop 2 voicing. . .

    so I was wondering if there's a similar explanation for this shape (and I'm sure it will differ depending on it's application).

    Lage uses it a lot in this video

  4. When looking at the NOTES involved I see : a major triad in 1st inversion and the ninth on top of that. It looks like a cool melodic device ( see Coltrane matrix melodic device: "1235" ) turned on its side and used harmonically. on it's own ( with out context ) it sounds kind of neutral and nothing ... Maybe that's it's appeal. It can be used for major : ( i'll keep the example as egcd : x7553x ): if a a bass player played c it's kind of a big open ended c major chord ; if a bass player played Bb it would imply Bb Lydian ; if you put A in the bass it's an A min 11 type thing . Or maybe do the Coltrane matrix thing harmonically to get right back where you start or as a target for one if budgeted out properly : target/ root> up min 3> up a 4th from that> up a min 3rd from that > up a 4 th from there> up a 3rd from there> up a 4th to arrive at the first chord !
    Or maybe see this as an interval set you can run through all scale degrees ( of all scales you wish to work with ) : here it is egcd ( viewing the intervals between each note from low to high there is: a 3rd and then a 4th and then a second) if you are aware of the NOTES involved and you respect the interval set you can find other cool shape/ sounds that come from this set ( and others )... And you can find new ways of making some sound associations that imply certain scales without using certain basic grips that you may be bored with .

  5. guitar1025

    I think that's it, floatingbridge!!

    When I briefly worked on interval sets (a long time ago) I worked on them in three note chunks (mainly because of some of the difficult stretches when 4 notes are involved), so I didn't immediately recognize it.

    I bought the Mel Bay Vic Juris book a long time ago. I'll need to delve into these a little deeper. There are some really cool sounds in there.

    Thanks for the extra set of eyes (and ears)!!

  6. This stuff crops up in a few books . Perhaps the most visual and succinct organization and layout I've seen was the 'butterfly palette chart ' From Jon Damian " a guitarists guide to composing and improvising " or something ( berkelee press 2002ish?) which organizes the arguably most useful three note sets into a few classes of implications and then showcases them in both close and open expressions
    . The van eps book briefly touches on this in maybe book 3 and in the holdsworth book " melody chords for guitar
    "; "just for the curious" video; various interviews of his he sort of hints at this being his deal... The little bridge in 'letters of marque' uses a 4th , 2nd , 6th type interval structure in a harmonic minor realm - which yields pretty haunting chords against a pedal- the dude taught himself to play! My god, what a thorough mind! . Liebman touches on it in a chromatic. 'Approach to jazz harmony' . In the Slonimsky book in ( thesaurus of scales and melodic patterns )the back he shows examples of it ( labeled as " pandiatonicism " ). A teacher of mine who dug monder a lot made me aware of them. Memorizing sets can get tough because some areas showcase a more juicy aspect of the scale than other degrees might . Also , are you viewing it from the melody note the mid or the bass voice? Then I kinda got myself in a hole with that as far as memorizing when you start trying to weave this into tunes or II V I or iiV i contexts - just that alone ; or using these devices to comp or solo by thinking "well ,the first 8 bars of all the things you are are in Ab type of thinking.
    The sets of 3 notes per string are definitely easier to visualize and digest. 4 notes are tough and sometimes are not possible unless you change the string sets where they appear which totally affects the tone , flow and memorization. Maybe it's not good to memorize these but practice moving through them . To think of the notes themselves: (when I'm doing these in F everything is cool but all my Bs are flat ). The 4 note ones can be viewed as 3 note ones jumbled together. The cool thing with the lage stuff is aside from all this - its context against the bass too.

  7. Poparad

    To answer your earlier question about where it comes from: It's a closed voicing in first inversion. Drop 2 and Drop 3 (and so on) voicings are closed voicings with the 2nd or 3rd (or whatever) notes from the top dropped down an octave. This voicing isn't spread out like that, but instead is in its condensed, closed arrangement. Just like Cmaj7 arranged C E G B.

  8. guitar1025

    I've tried both ways in terms of the memorization aspect. I think, for me it's most helpful to think of the top note, as I like to think melodically when I comp. Also, I was running the shape horizontally (chromatically) and playing the open E string underneath. So for the initial x7553 I would say "R, b3, b13/#5, b7 (all based on E in the bass)." So, I would call it either Emin7#5 or I could use it to suggest an altered sound, but I keep in mind that there's no third. I then move the shape up a half step and repeat the process until I've gone through all 12 possibilities. I took a lesson with Lage last fall and that was something he stressed to me; he sometimes like to play chords that are purposely ambiguous (no 3rd's or 7th's etc.) for different textures.

    I'm familiar with most of the books you've mentioned. Being a Berklee grad, one of my biggest regrets is never taking a semester with Jon Damian (class or private lesson). I've heard nothing but AMAZING (not just good) things about him as a teacher.

    Invaluable info and insight, man! Thanks!!

  9. That's the stuff in the Brett wilmott book ( mel bay's complete book of harmony theory and voicing ) which uses 15 different 7th type chords( various 1357s ) strictly in drop 2s and all their inversions ; strictly in the middle four strings . Being able to flip through these on their own for their own sake and sound and inversions is kind of requisite , then these are to be played against a bass note ( this must've been tough to do before looper pedals or at least the line 6 green guy ) to start seeing how these chords color and show various tensions.

  10. Quintricacy

    I see that Chord as being an aeolian voicing from the root or minor7b13. I use it a lot and it is very movable to create other chords as floating bridge said putting a Bb in the bass gives you Lydian I also really like to use it as Lydian#5 if you put Ab in the bass.

  11. Paul Wegmann

    Hi guys! Is incredible how you are capable of seeing just 1 thing from many points of view! I'm new in this forum and in 20 minutes I learned a lot! thank you!

    Now my 20 cents:

    I think is interesting to see that chord as someone told us up there, like a set of intervals. You can see this structure like generic intervals that will change their quality (major, minor) depending on the point of the scale are built (3rd-4th-2nd). If we think in the C major scale and build it from F (the next up) we have: F-A-D-E (no subliminal content hehe) and from G we have G-B-E-F, and so on. As you can see, we have minor and major thirds, we will have augmented and perfect fourths, and major or minor seconds, depending of the root. You can use it through any scale, melodic minor, harmonic minor, diminished scale, augmented scale etc etc.


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