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Cubism Analysis

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  1. Hey everyone,

    I have recently been practicing Kurts tune "Cubism". It is a tricky tune to get around (especially the B section!) and I was just wondering if anyone had heard of any sort of analysis of the tune or if anyone knows what Kurts concept was when writing the tune. Thanks!

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  2. Colonel Trane
    Member

    Kurt wrote the song based on an excersize using coltranes tri tonic system. He grouped all 12 keys into four groups using that system and then practiced playing through them and out of this came Cubism. He says it in a few clinics that are floating around.....

  3. silverwater
    Member

    C Ab E

    G Eb B

    D Bb Gb

    A F Db

  4. colonel,

    can you elaborate on the groupings of four? Do the 12 keys fit into each 4 measures? I'm still having some trouble trying to figure it out

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  5. silverwater
    Member

    C Ab E

    G Eb B

    D Bb Gb

    A F Db

  6. Colonel Trane
    Member

    Look at how silverwater grouped it. If you are familiar with Coltrane changes they move in major thirds and so does Cubism. So for example the first couple chords Gm11 and Am11 you could see as being in the key of F then you could see the changes Bbm11 to Ebm11 in Db and then E7sus and Bmi to be in A completing that section of the cycle. The rest of the tune does the same thing just with new changes.

  7. silverwater
    Member

    Exactly as Col. Trane said. For the B section, the first 8 bars seem to stray from this concept slightly, before returning to it for the last 8 bars.

    Here's how I'd analyze the key centers for the B sec:

    / C / Ab / A / A /

    / C / Ab / E / E /

    / Eb / B / G // Bb / Gb /

    /D....................../

    That's as close as I could get to Coltrane changes while fitting parent scales to those first 8 chords. Unless the first chord of Cmaj7 is wrong in Kurt's book and it's really a C7sus, in which case you could put the first system into the "F Db A" group. I'll have to check it against the record at some point, unless somebody else has already done this?

  8. I think you're correct with the Cmaj7. The 2 lead sheets I have both indicate that it's a Cmaj7 and the recordings do as well. thanks for all the help guys. this really is Kurt's personal giant steps.

  9. Neither
    Member

    -I tried to make an analysis of this tune and I agree for the [A] :
    /: F / Db / A // C / Ab / E // Eb / B / G // Bb/ F# / D :/
    and then the same progression, as in the beginning, goes to the interlude.

    -But for [B], with the hypothesis that there are 12 different major tonalities, we can suppose :

    CM7 is from C (because on the melody we can see there is an F, so it is not from G)
    C#M7 is from Db or Ab
    DM7 is from A or D
    Bm69 is from A
    For the last 2 chords we can consider they are from A (because we need 12 tones !)

    C/E is from F (because C is used above and because on the melody we can see there is an F, so it is not from G ; C/E with F on top can be heard as E locrian, so F...)
    Bbm7 is from Ab or Db (because there is a C on melody, so it is not Gb)
    E/Eb is from E or B
    F#m7 is from E or D (because A is used above)
    For the last 2 chords we can consider they are from E (because we need 12 tones !)

    Ab/G is from Ab or Eb
    B/Bb is from B or Gb
    Am6 is from G
    Eb/D is from Eb or Bb
    Abm7 & GbM7 are from Gb

    DM7 (and last F#m7) is from D (because A is used above)

    -Then we can see we've got some uncertainty, but beginning by the end (proceeding by elimination) :

    Eb/D is from Bb (because only this chord can be in this tonality, and we suppose the 12 tones are used in [B])
    B/Bb is from B (because Gb is used at the end of the progression)
    Ab/G is from Eb (because as we saw C#M7 is from Db or Ab, and Bbm7 is from Ab or Db, Ab is used on one of this 2 chords)
    F#m7 is E (because D is used at the end of the progression)
    E/Eb is from E (because B is used for B/Bb)
    first DM7 is from A (because D is used at the end of the progression)

    -So there is still some uncertainty for C#M7 and Bbm7. Ab or Db ?

    2 possibilities :
    / C / Ab / A / A /
    / F / Db / E / E /
    / Eb / B / G // Bb / Gb /
    /D....................../
    or
    / C / Db / A / A /
    / F / Ab / E / E /
    / Eb / B / G // Bb / Gb /
    /D....................../

    What do you think of that ?
    Kurt, I think we need your help ! please ?

  10. Neither
    Member

    Bump... !

    Anybody has an advice ?


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