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Dodecaphonic Triads (Scary title mh?)

(6 posts)
  1. Gia5
    Member

    Hi guys, I'd like to share with you something I've been briefly workin'on, that i sometimes use to "freshen up" my ears.
    Maybe you've already figured it out, but for the ones who didn't, here it is:
    Some months ago I was reading the introduction of the Slominsky Thesaurus, in my third of forth failed attempt to
    practice something from that book, and i noticed something that at a first read i didn't.
    While explaining the mechanism, the terms and the concepts, often in a mathematical way, the author wrote that there
    was the possibility of using two major and two minor triads without repeating a single note, and the same thing was possible
    with four triads of different nature, diminished, minor, major and augmented.
    Simple math of course, 12 notes...but i didn't know wich triads to use to get the result.
    I took a paper and started to figure it out,just for curiosity (and speculation, I suppose).
    Here they are:
    Two major triads a tone away, and two minor triads a tone away where the first one is a minor 6 away from the first
    major triad. For example C,D,Ab- and Bb-.
    I think of them as I, II, bVI- and bVII-.
    The second possibility, the one with four different triads is, for ex:
    C°,G-,Emaj and F+. The order is diminished/minor/major/augmented just for alteration purposes I guess,
    the same order named in the book, but for a quick thinking I like to think at them as
    I°,IIImaj,IV+ and V-.
    I started to play them a little and find them very geometrical in a sense,you can play any inversion you want, and after
    the last note move up or down a half-step and you'll find a note to start the next triad, tons of possibilities.
    Of course it's mental, of course i wouldn't play this on "But not for me" or "Blue Moon", but it's refreshing for the ears
    (of course,being a serial combination of 12 different notes) and challenging to the hands.
    It's playable too in some semi-free situations or advanced chromatic languages.
    And it's a way to "improvise" dodecaphonic series. Freaky.
    I hope this can be helpful or, at least, interesting to you.
    Thanks for reading,
    Best regards,
    G.

    P.S.
    sorry for my english ;)

  2. mrzzajjazz
    Member

    Thanks for the interesting info. Great stuff! :)

    Secret
  3. Matt
    Member

    these would sound killer as out phrases on static chords.

  4. sandman
    Member

    I was just reading over your post, great use of Slonimsky by the way great work. Although I'll need to verify at an instrument whether this stuff would actually sound good, it seems these triad groups should work on dominant chords, particularly the dim/min/maj/aug group. Continuing on your example, given the the triads C dim/ G-/ Emaj/ F+ these could be used over a G7 chord. These triads may make for an interesting grouping . The explanation will be in this format: Triad name = root of triad (function in the context of a G7 chord), third of triad (function in the context of a G7), fifth of triad (function in the context of a G7).

    C diminished triad = C (11), Eb (maj 6 of G), Gb/F# (maj7 ;
    G- = G (R), Bb (#9), D (5) ;
    Emaj = E (maj6), G#/Ab (b9), B (3) ;
    F+ = F (7), A (9), C#/Db (b5/#11)

    now really the only guy that doesn't fit so hot on the G is the C dim triad. But it may sound good as a pick up for the other 3 triads. As in the C dim may act instead as a D7 altered (7, b9, 3) moving to the G7. Or, just play a B dim triad, and call it a day.

    as for the C, D, Ab-, Bb-

    I think this stuff would sound good on a D7, or one of its cousins

    For D

    7,9,11
    R, 3, 5
    b5, 6, b9
    #5, maj7, #9

    I say, why not use it in a standard?

    (pardon any mistakes I may have made)

  5. Gia5
    Member

    Nice, Sandman, that's an accurate analysis...
    But for some reasons it's not the way i look at this, particular or general, use of triads...
    there's a whole theory for the use of triad pairs, some nice books (and some great lines from Kurt's solos too),
    where you can use these pairs for ALL the kind of sounds you want to obtain, maj, min, dom, alt, aug, etc etc..
    but also, to me, there's the incredible strenght and power of the sound of a triad, wich can be, for this nature, overimposed
    basically wherever you want, if done with the right intention...George Garzone makes an interesting use of triads in a chromatic way,
    a kind of mix of the Liebman's book stuff WITH the triads...if you have the chance, take a look on the web, or his website...
    So, back to what i posted, being these triads covering the whole chromatic palette, i would not try to use them ON this or THAT chord,
    even after a deeper look like the one you did...but on any(almost) chord, sure of a constant in & out effect, with the authority
    that only triads, pentatonic and fourths can give, IMHO. (after all, if you use them on G7, with that tensions,automatically Bb7,Db7 and E7
    comes out, the same for minor chords..)
    Just my perspective.
    I don't think, finally, that these two combinations sound super-good. I wouldn't use them for more than 20 seconds in a solo. But have two qualities, freshness for the ears, and geometry for the hands..it's nice to look, freely, while practicing, the hundreds of ways you can
    chain one in another...and learn triads fingerings better on your guitar too ;)

  6. GREAT


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