Free over fast question

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  1. cruxtable
    Member

    hello,

    this question is in regards to something i hear mr. hekselman do. specifically what really made me start thinking about this was on his solo over the way you look tonight, on ari's record bert's playground. it's on spotify if you don't know what i'm talking about.

    i would really like to be able to do what he does on that solo - play freely over a very up-tempo tune, messing with the rhythms, floating, pretty much ignoring the time and harmony. he also does some of this stuff over the melody, displacing it and doing crossrhythms or something similar.. i've tried doing this kind of thing, and while it's pretty easy to do some of the interesting floating things he's doing, it's almost impossible for me to keep the form at the same time. as soon as i start messing with it i lose track, and i don't know how to keep track and mess with it at the same time. any insights on this?

  2. smoke
    Member

    Something like the link below could help break free of hearing things in four.

    http://mattotto.org/category/lessons/lesson-33-groupings/

    I have heard Wayne Krantz talk about using math to figure out how many measures of 4/4 would be required to cycle back around when playing in 3, 5, 7, etc over them. I think it is in one of his online lessons from his site.

    I think that is part of the trick - being bold enough to keep going w/ some type of rhythmic superimposition, knowing that '1' of the real time sig will cycle back around eventually. Internalizing when that '1' will hit is a big part of this type of thing, I think.

  3. Thiago
    Member

    Nice post, Smoke. Very helpful!

  4. arewolfe
    Member

    Smoke's got it... you need to internalize the feeling of how many times an odd-metered phrase can be fit into 2 bars... 4 bars... 8 bars... whatever. It comes down to your internal sense of when the downbeat is coming. If you do the math eventually you memorize the numbers in your head, and after that you eventually start to recognize odd groupings like 3, 5, 7 and how they "come back around" -- or how many extra beats they need to fit into a 16 or 32 beat phrase.

    Avishai Cohen does this crap all the time in his trio compositions (less so in his improvisations). It seems that all the great jazz musicians always have an incredibly solid grasp on this concept... to the point where it comes out naturally in their lines.

    Here's one of my favorite Avishai tunes: 4+5 phrase repeated 3 times (27 beats) then a tag of 5 beats to fit it into 4/4.

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Plugin

  5. Quintricacy
    Member

    It's also good to forget about tapping on 2 and 4 at very fast tempos. Switch to 1 and 3 or just 1. It will keep you more stable and aware of where you are in the form.

  6. You insist on your thing for the common denominator of/ with what you're against. I believe there is a reference to this approach in a modern drummer interview with Zach hill

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