Harmony and Guitar.

(12 posts)

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  1. Quintricacy
    Member

    Lately I've been thinking about the guitar and harmony. I'm starting to feel that we are one of the most harmonically underdeveloped instruments in jazz in a soloist context. If we think about sax players and piano players they have all this harmonic stuff going on where as we tend to be quite chord/scale oriented. I guess maybe it's because we don't really have those towering figures of harmony such as Coltrane for sax and Herbie for piano. The only two guys I can think of on guitar who have some quite interesting harmonic things going on are Lionel Loueke and Nelson Veras. If anyone knows of others please let me know. I'd be interested in other peoples thoughts too.

    • Posted 1 year ago
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  2. mikelorenz
    Member

    I'm finding your comments a little vague. Do you just mean pattern type playing? Or "taking it out" so to speak? Either way there are tons of guitar players that do both it's really hard to say that they don't have "stuff going on" like piano players or saxophonists.

    Jim Hall, Kurt, Ben Monder, Peter Bernstein, Vic Juris...the list goes on. I know these are mostly common names but I hear things I find to be harmonically exciting things in all of their playing. Maybe its more of a taste issue than anything else?

    • Posted 1 year ago
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  3. nateroberts
    Member

    Rez Abassi is another guy who has an immensely deep harmonic concept, and it shows in his playing. Check out his most recent solo album, Things to Come. Really great and interesting stuff. I got to study with him and play with him and the guys in Rudresh's group last spring. It was cool to be able to hang with them for a couple days - really great musicians and great people.

    - nate
    http://www.naterobertsmusic.com

    • Posted 1 year ago
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  4. jbroad
    Member

    add mick goodrick, wolfgang muthspiel and john stowell to that list

    • Posted 1 year ago
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  5. jazzbum
    Member

    I have had this feeling before, but I always find guitar players that prove me wrong. One of my all time heroes is John Abercrombie in this regard, he has an amazing way of dealing with changes that no one else seems to have on the guitar. In my opinion one of the more significant things that guitar players tend to lack compared to horn players and pianists is amazing time. Michael Brecker comes to mind.

    • Posted 1 year ago
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  6. guitar
    Member

    Tim Miller is one the most harmonically advanced guitarists that I have heard. I studied with him at Berklee and it was astounding the stuff that he had going on. Really deep. I agree with you about Nelson Veras, absolutely incredible musician and insane harmonic concept.

    • Posted 1 year ago
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  7. Quintricacy
    Member

    Yeah, I guess i am talking about "outside" playing. Jim Hall for sure but I'm not sure about Bernstien, I would classify him as fairly straight ahead. In a way i know it's a little stupid to be saying why don't we play like sax players or piano players? But I'm only speaking harmonically here. Good point on good time, Guitar. Brecker's time is great but so is Nelson Veras and Kurt too.

    • Posted 1 year ago
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  8. Sandemose
    Member

    For me, Ben Monder is a harmonic unclimbable tower. I also agree about Abercrombie, his way of dealing with changes is really individual. Allan Holdsworth must be the father of advanced harmony on guitar. Strange he havent been mentioned here. Perhaps he is the most important guitarist for Kurt Rosenwinkel generation. When I listen to Kurt, Gilad, Kreisberg playing with distortion, I think of Holdsworth in an instant. And Allan have been around since the 70s?

    Best, Sandemose

    • Posted 1 year ago
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  9. mikelorenz
    Member

    I'd suggest listening to Bernstein more closely. He does a bit of "side stepping" the changes which is an "outside" concept. It's great to hear how he mixes that kind of stuff in with really swingin', straight-ahead material.

    You could also check out Mary Halvorson or Marc Ducret for "outside" stuff.

    • Posted 1 year ago
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  10. guitar
    Member

    Sandemose, I agree with you that Holdsworth is a really a father of advanced harmony on guitar. Mick Goodrick as well. The new generation of innovative players: Kurt, Monder, Adam Rogers, Nelson Veras, Tim Miller, Jonathan Kriesberg, etc owe a great deal to his innovations.

    • Posted 1 year ago
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  11. Matt
    Member

    Ben Monder, agreeing with Sandemose, is absolutely astounding. I can't say i know outside playing all that well, as i'm only intermediate level improviser, but Ben Monder is fantastic.

    • Posted 1 year ago
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  12. Matt
    Member

    Also, i noticed Nelson Veras has been mentioned a lot, and i found a clinic given by him, if anyone is interested-
    http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=220275918824&id=215402256689&ref=mf
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0HEWD8pWZ8

    • Posted 1 year ago
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