Julian Lage

(55 posts)
  1. Sandemose

    Julian and Randy Vincent playing duo standards. I really enjoyed this. Comping is awesome.

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    There are two more videos with trio setting, this is one of them.

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    Best, Sandemose

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  2. Dorian Grey

    I personally think that this guy playing is completely overrated. Is melodic speech is completely basic; is lines uninspired and flat, even guitarist in the 50's had a more "hip" harmonic vocabulary. Also guitarristically it's also pretty flat; and i am not even going to star to analyze is "pseudo" acoustic sound; sorry but had to let this one out!

  3. Poparad

    I personally enjoy his melodic sense, I think his lines are always tasteful and fitting to the moment in the music, I find plenty of "hipness" in his playing, and I really enjoy the half electric/half acoustic sound he gets from his guitars. Thanks for sharing, Sandemose!

  4. Poparad

    Oh yeah, and that stuff after 6:58 is bananas! I don't see how anyone could listen to that and think his melodic ideas are completely basic.

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  5. Dorian Grey

    Well; i can! :)

  6. jazznan

    I'd like to hear your definition of a so called "hip harmonic vocabulary"?

    This is the problem with jazz and especially guitar's not enough to just play and make music, you've got to be doing something that is supposedly "hip"

  7. Sandemose

    Dorian Grey: can you give an example (youtube video?) of "hip" playing? Im just curious, Im not arguing with you.

    Best, Sandemose

  8. jorgemg1984

    I also think he is overrated but saying his "melodic speech is completely basic" or "his lines are uninspired and flat" its something really strong to say. Too strong in my opinion. He is a very good player although I agree he gets more credit than he deserves and sometimes plays too many cliches. But wow on 6:58 - great lines and feeling. And the guy plays and records with Gary Burton, not for everyone...

    I also prefer a more electric sound, his sound is too acoustic for my taste but he has a very good sound in my opinion even if its not the one I like the most. Oh and he is 23... Again, 23...

  9. Dorian Grey

    Sandemose; i see no point in giving you some examples of youtube "hip" playing but i will give them nevertheless.

    For starters i will just say some names. Adam Rogers, Jonathan Kreisberg, Mike Moreno, Lage Lund, Ben Monder, Tim Miller ( and i am just referring to the last generation, and just to name a few, and i am excluding mister "hipness" himself Kurt, no need to talk about that !).

    So here they are (in no particular order):

    Lage Lund:

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    Adam Rogers :

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    Jonathan Kreisberg -

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    Mike Moreno -

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    Ben Monder -

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    Tim Miller -

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    Jazznan: Yes, it's enough to play the music, but that's not hapenning here, the supposed "bananas" after 6:58 when they are trading fours is just a canned "lick" in particular a classical guitar exercise that i imagine many guitarists on this forum had encountered before, displaced chromatically or superimposed "ad-libitum" in the moment, and it's called "The Spider".

    Which is kinda strange for a guy that plays since he was a kid, and something embarrassing to say the least to play( i have seen a video around were he explains some of these patterns).

    Also is comping seems to have come out of "Jazz Guitar for beginners" by Mel Bay or something like that. Plain vanilla drop 3 (and maybe 2) inversion of 7 chords without any musicality whatsoever.

    I rest my case on this saying that listen, and you will see what i am talking about.

  10. Poparad

    Geez. You've certainly got a bug up your ass about him. I'm sorry you can't just chill out and enjoy some good music.

  11. Dorian Grey

    Poparad; i am "totally" chilled out, just talking about things and expressing a point of view :)

  12. Poparad

    Well, you're really just coming across as a troll because your critique is completely not grounded in reality. Your complaint about playing an embellished lick could be leveled at anyone who has ever played jazz, ever, and your chord voicing complaint is ridiculous because the very video at the top of this thread has examples beyond what you accuse he's limited to. You just have your mind made up about him and are inventing facts to make your case, rather than actually observing what he's really playing. However, there's no point in arguing this further, because you'll just come up with more arguments against his playing and ultimately it's a waste of time to attack or defend a player's playing style. If you don't enjoy the music, don't listen to it.

  13. Gia5

    I don't think Dorian Gray is being a troll, he's just expressing some opinions, maybe strong, but not offensive, and not without (his personal) arguments.
    The age factor stated by Jorgemg1984 is very relevant in my opinion. I find Julian Lage amazing for his preparation, his respect and love for the music, his joyful approach to it. Talking about "materials", harmonic and melodic materials, he's not the new thing. Not even Kreisberg maybe, wich is way more advanced than Lage, compared to Mark Turner, Ben Monder, Kurt or Vijay Iyer, just to name names.
    But not everyone has to be an harmonic innovator of course. Mehldau and Scofield, two of my favourite ALL TIMES players, has bring no particular innovations in the vocabulary of jazz, but have changed the history of their instruments using the vast pre-existing post-coltrane and post-brecker material.
    I think Lage is a good stylist, but not a boring one (like Jimmy Bruno to me) but an interesting one (like, mpf, Hank Mobley, Stanley Turrentine and so on).

  14. jorgemg1984

    Great point, he is a stylist more than an innovator. Which doesn't mean he has no originality. Gia5 you mentioned Bruno, now that's a boring guy, nothing original there for me. And just one more time, he is 23...

  15. patfarlow

    Julian Lage Teaches at Berklee now at a young a much like Metheny did before him. Feel free to dislike him but ignoring his prodigious talent is to
    balk at reality. What the hell does pseudo acoustic mean anyway? Would you mind posting a video of your "hip" playing Dorian i'm really curious how you compare.

  16. mrzzajjazz

    Isn't it just a matter of musical taste? You may dislike his playing and style, but to try to find general evidence that Lage's playing sucks is kinda hopeless.. From the responses here you can tell that taste is hihgly individual (even within the KR forum..). Agree with patfarlow that to ignore his great talent seems a bit strange.

  17. jazznan

    There are so many hip players, who are not talked about simply because they are older and don't look as hip....I could make a long list.....part of the "hip" factor has a lot to do with visual appeal not auditory. i.e. This guy plays with this pedal and he has nice hair and wears cool shirts so he is hip, while this guy plays virtually the same musical vocabulary but he's old or doesn't use effects, so he's not that great.

    I'm going to make up a blind youtube "hip taste test" and see what you think is really hip....I'll let you know when, I've finished it

  18. Anny Mouse

    C'mon man, do you think Kurt would ever come on a message board and publicly trash talk another player? It's fine to have your own opinions. But it's such an inhumane thing to call someone like Julian overrated, let alone critique a line he played out of context, his comping, his harmonic vocabulary, and his sound?! Be nice man, this is supposed to be a positive place. Does no one (including yourself) any good to spout negative energy like that. It comes back around.

  19. Matt

    in my opinion, this surpasses the hippest jazz on the scale of hip -

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    roll on, julian.

  20. Hip is such an overused term in my opinion. I think Bob Dylan and Johnny Cash are just as great as Coltrane and Wayne Shorter. No better , no worse. It doesn't matter about the complicated-ness (trying to make up a new word) or anything surface like that--Just self-expression. I think Julian is expressing himself quite well. If he doesn't CHANGE THE COURSE OF JAZZ HISTORY ---that's ok . It seems like people are only interested in that sometimes. I would say people are too hard on themselves and others in this regard. I just like to hear someone having fun and expressing themselves. It doesn't hurt that he is a pretty amazing guitar player to boot.

  21. Anny Mouse

    Amen to that!

  22. 4 things:

    1. He can obviously play guitar ( ... And do it really well ). Are there things that i don't dig about his playing or kinda rub me the wrong way ? Yes, but not enough to go on a huge diatribe about it... Which makes me think that it's really probably all the smiling and blissed out enjoyment of his own music making that might be making one pissed/cringe (... Really , i bet that's what starts something like that... Or a bad day or something ).
    2. I like the comment about the inherent ageism in what may constitute hip at a given moment. A crucial variable to consider.
    3. ... Can i say i am super shocked that it isn't me starting a littany of venemous discourse for once!?!? Hahahaha.
    4. Sandemose, thanks for bringing 'bananas' to my vocabulary ! Might i receommend " perf " ( in " perfect " )? You will feel creepy using at first and it may cause some doubletakes but after a while , if used with deadpan seriousness it starts to feel really good.

  23. jazznan

    Great posts floater and larue.....I know Kurt references Elmo Hope as an inspiration, how many of you would list him as a major hip jazz cat...I've heard of quiet a few players, and I'd never checked him out before, that's how "unhip" I am ;)

  24. Sandemose

    Floatingbrigde: thanks for expanding my vocabulary. I tried the word "perf" on my girlfriend. She just glared at me. I will hereafter only use it in a message board context. Hopefully she wont leave me.

    I like Julian for his power and the joy of his playing. I think that make him hip.

    Best, Sandemose

  25. mrzzajjazz

    Totally agree with Sandemose. Complexity isn't necessary a criteria for being hip.

  26. jorgemg1984

    Even complexity is hard to define right? Hall and Bernstein for example don't play a lot of notes but I think their playing is complex, original and very appealing... And maybe when they were 23 they weren't as advanced as Julian is (Jim Hall has actually given very high complements to Julian) Lets give the man time to mature and develop his own voice. He probably will not change jazz but how many players have done that? Not so many...

    But on the new young players I think Lage Lund and Gilad Hekselman are on an incredible level, they are both more interesting than Lage to me and also very young - so I get the overrated comment.

  27. Sandemose

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    Nice playing here as well.

  28. Joxo

    To much pretentious BS in this thred if u ask me. If u dont like he music, dont listen to it. If u dont like the sound , the voicings , the output then put your energy in to your own music instead of finding what u think is flaws in other peoples playing. I`ve heard and to some extent voiced my opinions about others like some does in here when i was younger and it did not lead to anything positive.

    By the way Dorian grey , are your playing up on youtube ? . would be cool to se how you convert your analytic sharpness into hip playing.

    Best / joxo

  29. silverwater

    Jazznan said:

    "There are so many hip players, who are not talked about simply because they are older and don't look as hip....I could make a long list.....part of the "hip" factor has a lot to do with visual appeal not auditory. i.e. This guy plays with this pedal and he has nice hair and wears cool shirts so he is hip, while this guy plays virtually the same musical vocabulary but he's old or doesn't use effects, so he's not that great."

    I used to think that Jazz was more or less immune to the emphasis placed on physical appearance that is so pervasive in other genres of music, but lately I've been realizing that this is far from the reality. I've actually been discussing this with my mentor recently. And I don't want him (or myself) to come off as sexist, but he's divulged that many times having a "gifted" woman (and he didn't mean musically) with him has been the difference between keeping and losing a gig. Also he's been told by prominent player (whose name I won't mention but all of would know) that, and this is a direct quote: "Nowadays if you want to make it in the music business you have to either be a chick or a cripple".

    But in no way am I saying all this to disparage Julian Lage, (although most would consider him to be a handsome young man). I thoroughly enjoy his playing, and I think making comparisons and judgements about who is better than who based on things like the harmonic complexity one's lines and chords is utter foolery. "Sounding Point" is a great album, so many of tracks are like breaths of fresh air; duos and trios uncluttered by a rhythm section, and patient and cohesive when the drums are there.

    Of course there is something to be said for complexity, but only if it brings with musicality, because all that matters to a real music fan is if the song resonates with him/her. "Does it sound good or not?" That's what counts.

  30. jazznan

    love that "ode to elvin" thanks sandemose

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