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Kurt's Use Of Harmonic Minor Over Maj7 Chords

(47 posts)
  1. bingefeller
    Member

    Hi guys,

    i read on another forum that Kurt uses the 6th mode of the Harmonic Minor scale over maj7th chords.

    Does anyone know if he really does use this, or is it just a rumour? Also, can someone point me in the direction of what this sounds like in a recorded setting?

    Email
  2. ... You can actually youse maj7#11 or vice veras ( use harmonic minor during this/these chords ).
    I don't know about or if it is even a' rumor ' that he may do this.
    I have been surprised that it isn't stated more often in books or why teachers kinda wince and say '...yeah , you can , but...' without a clear reason why I'm being dissuaded from doing it and moving on to other things to talk about and play...( it's been a consistent response ).
    Seems like personal taste and convention come in to play ( ... Because it is legal) .
    Put the chord ( or a harmonic minor bassline ) through a loop and check it out.

  3. kurtisrosenwinkel
    Administrator

    flat 6th degree of harmonic minor over major7 chord- yes! turns it into a one diminished chord which is a suspension of major. so you can use it as a suspension and then resolve.

  4. kurtisrosenwinkel
    Administrator

    C major7
    E harmonic minor

    B/C

    B7b9

    you can think of c major as B7b9 going to E-

    or you can think of C major as A-, and then use E7b9 to A-. thinking this way creates cadence in your lines even as you are playing over a static chord.

  5. bingefeller
    Member

    A reply from Kurt himself! Thank you so much, this has made my day. :)

  6. arewolfe
    Member

    Awesome!

    Now just imagine if this turned into a regular column of "Ask Kurt" (about harmonic and melodic concepts) **hint hint**

  7. patfarlow
    Member

    cool, ill have to practice my harmonic minor more and remember this.

  8. kurtisrosenwinkel
    Administrator

    ask away

  9. patfarlow
    Member

    did you practice your legato alot?, its very smooth.

  10. patfarlow
    Member

    also would you mind talking about the intro to "a life unfolds" on the remedy?

    its one of the most beautiful pices ever

    is it all improv? did you write it out first?

    thanks very much

  11. arewolfe
    Member

    This is sort of a lazy man's question, because the answers are there for me if I just transcribe some of the licks, but...

    I listened to "Backup" from the 2011 Jarasum Jazz Festival. Your solo started off bluesy and progressed to more interesting lines. Since a blues is one of the simplest templates for reharming, what are some less-obvious ideas you could use over the changes (aside from putting a II-V before a chord change, or a tritone sub of the II-V before a chord change... i.e. F#-7 to B7 to Bb7)?

    Also, are there any records you recommend checking out for comping? I suck at comping. I listened to the gigs with Joel Frahm at Smalls and your comping was killer.

  12. add4
    Member

    A lot of questions come to my mind:

    Have you found a 'building block' of musical sentence that gives weight and depth to its sound? I'm looking of it as a kind of system for building melodic lines within the phrase. The idea is to make it sound like a phrase and not like a stream of notes.. not sure if it's clear, but i hear that in your playing more than in a lot of other people's so i'm asking away.
    I've been looking for answers to this question for a long time. I think some answers are in the use of triads or pieces of them in the phrase. Sometimes not diatonic triads, only with one or two notes of the scale/chord i'm thinking of.

    Are you using other minor scales over a major sound? i've been using that a few times and was struck by how it reminded me of a kind of sound i associate with your playing, so i'm curious about the other uses of melodic minor and harmonic minor on a major context too.

    Passing chords : how do you build them, from what material? at the moment i'm working on diatonic substitutions and really dig the sound of that, i imagine that i could approach the subs from the previous and next degrees, and also tonicise them using V or sub Vs.
    i'm thinking about the kind of arrangement you made on these foolish things on that masterclass that leaked on this forum.
    maybe give a list of the chords of a part of this arrangement with the thinking behind them?

    maybe give some examples of superimpositions of a chord over another one that you often use/like/worked on?

    still have a lot of other questions in mind .. hope these will have some answers already.
    Thanks in advance anyway!

  13. arewolfe
    Member

    ^^ In regards to passing chords, I transcribed some of "These Foolish Things" from that clinic. It seemed like approaching a chord from a half step above, the passing chord was usually a dominant. And approaching from a half step below the passing chord was a diminished chord. Is that the idea?

  14. fakejake
    Member

    arewolfe, any chance you could post that transcription? I remember first hearing that piece and being absolutely floored. kurt is killing with this stride exercise thing, i could listen to him play like that all day long

  15. fakejake
    Member

    kurt, i would love to know what happens with your eyes when you're playing.
    i almost got a a cramp in my eyelids when i first saw that. looks really cool though, i have to admit.

  16. kurtisrosenwinkel
    Administrator

    ^^ In regards to passing chords, I transcribed some of "These Foolish Things" from that clinic. It seemed like approaching a chord from a half step above, the passing chord was usually a dominant. And approaching from a half step below the passing chord was a diminished chord. Is that the idea?

    yes, thats the idea. check out using a dominant b5 chord from a half step below- its an expression of V7 whole tone, with nice deceptive root motion.

  17. kurtisrosenwinkel
    Administrator

    i practiced alot to acheive a legato technique. theres alot to it.

    speaking of legato, i am going to hear allan holdsworth tonight! in fact, i gota go now.
    cheers all

    kurt

  18. jorgemg1984
    Member

    Kurt your legatto thing is unbealivable - very hard to do that without distortion! You shouldn't have opened the door, I bet you will have millions of questions here, I can even imagine guys registering in the forum just to ask you stuff :)

    I would like to ask you what do you consider it was more important to you to achieve the level you have achieved; I know you did some transcribing, spent a lot of time searching for your sound / voice and using your voice in improvistion, also practicing tons of scale patterns and doing lots of jams in NY and also doing the "continuous scale exercises" to get better at modulations (these are the ones I know from clinics / interviews, I assume you practiced lots of other things)

    What would you say it was the most decisive of all (if there's one of course)? I assume it's also about being obsessive...

  19. Gia5
    Member

    Would you, if you don't mind, name one or two of your favorite painters, one or two books that you really liked or that inspired you, and one or two "classical" composers/compositions that you particulary love? Thanks for being here with us fans.
    Cheers.
    G.

  20. patfarlow
    Member

    i practiced alot to acheive a legato technique. theres alot to it.

    Mr. Kurt Rosenwinkel, are you willing to expound this statement? what did you do to practice it? will you ever maybe write a theory book?

  21. monk
    Member

    Hi Kurt, are most of your voicings derived from drop2, 3, 4 2-3 and 2-4?

    What I mean is - do you just learn these stock voicings first, then alter them as you want to? For example, flatten the 5th to get b5 chord

    Thanks a lot

  22. yaclaus
    Member

    Firstly, I am flattered that Kurt with his busy schedule to answer on some of the questions asked here. Some people seem very demanding and expect thorough and definitive answers from Kurt.

    Well my question:

    How do you approach time and how have you practiced time?

    best from Claus

  23. arewolfe
    Member

    Hey Jorge, I took your email address from another thread and sent you what I have... not the actual voicings (haven't scanned those yet) but just the chord symbols from one part where Kurt is slowly playing a chord on each beat and discussing the concept of "strong beat, weak beat."

  24. fakejake
    Member

  25. jorgemg1984
    Member

    He send it to me instead jake, already send an e-mail back telling him that!

  26. fakejake
    Member

    cheers!

  27. arewolfe
    Member

    Haha... oops. My bad. Re-sent to fakejake.

  28. kurtisrosenwinkel
    Administrator

    also would you mind talking about the intro to "a life unfolds" on the remedy?

    its one of the most beautiful pices ever

    is it all improv? did you write it out first?

    that intro is all improvised. i was dealing with some triadic motifs at the time that appear in it. the opening thing is just open triads going through the cycle of fourths. then theres some othe cycle of fourth stuff amongst alot of free improvisation...

  29. kurtisrosenwinkel
    Administrator

    This is sort of a lazy man's question, because the answers are there for me if I just transcribe some of the licks, but...

    I listened to "Backup" from the 2011 Jarasum Jazz Festival. Your solo started off bluesy and progressed to more interesting lines. Since a blues is one of the simplest templates for reharming, what are some less-obvious ideas you could use over the changes (aside from putting a II-V before a chord change, or a tritone sub of the II-V before a chord change... i.e. F#-7 to B7 to Bb7)?

    try cadences- progressions that go different places. you could think of these as ways to construct your lines, or ways to improvise chordally...the trick is practicing in time and figuring out ways to resolve to the important chords of the blues so that it makes sense. but everything inbetween can be explored in many ways. this is one of them.

  30. kurtisrosenwinkel
    Administrator

    Have you found a 'building block' of musical sentence that gives weight and depth to its sound? I'm looking of it as a kind of system for building melodic lines within the phrase. The idea is to make it sound like a phrase and not like a stream of notes.. not sure if it's clear, but i hear that in your playing more than in a lot of other people's so i'm asking away.
    I've been looking for answers to this question for a long time. I think some answers are in the use of triads or pieces of them in the phrase. Sometimes not diatonic triads, only with one or two notes of the scale/chord i'm thinking of.

    Are you using other minor scales over a major sound? i've been using that a few times and was struck by how it reminded me of a kind of sound i associate with your playing, so i'm curious about the other uses of melodic minor and harmonic minor on a major context too.

    Passing chords : how do you build them, from what material? at the moment i'm working on diatonic substitutions and really dig the sound of that, i imagine that i could approach the subs from the previous and next degrees, and also tonicise them using V or sub Vs.

    see above

    see above

    see above


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