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Mark Turner voiceleading exercise

(19 posts)
  1. mrzzajjazz
    Member

    Anyone of you guys checked out this exercise? (got this from an interview at jazzheaven):

    "Okay. Well, for example for voice leading: there are a few versions, and it
    gets pretty complex. But I would say one is you could just try something that
    has voice leading and ear training in it. For example, take any tune, let’s say
    a standard. But it’s something that you know, that you have memorized, that
    you have no doubt as to what the chords are and that you know for sure.
    Not something that’s kinds of vague, but rather something that you really
    know. And then, start on any note, randomly. Just pick a note that’s not the
    note that you usually start on. In other words, not the key that you usually
    play it in. Start playing the melody. So that’s the first thing. Just be able to
    play any melody from anywhere and any key without even thinking about it.

    Just do it. Then once you got that handled, then play the bass notes and the
    melody together. Of course, if it’s a single line instrument, if that’s the thing
    that you wanted to do and play, you’re going bar for bar… melody-bass
    notes, melody-bass notes, or vice versa. Or any combination thereof, so you
    can start to hear the relationship between bass and melody. And then, as
    you do it, then play melody, thirds and sevenths and bass. And when you
    play the thirds and sevenths across, you’re gonna have melody, third or
    seven, vertically speaking, and bass at the bottom. So you wanna have the
    thirds and sevenths moving smoothly and smooth voice leading. In other
    words, that means: you don’t wanna move anymore than a step. And in
    some cases you may have to move more than a step but if you can avoid it,
    you wanna keep it smooth voice leading as much as possible. So that’s the
    first thing and just go through that, so that you can do it without any
    hesitations. Just keep doing it. In other words, it’s more difficult than it
    sounds to do it without hesitation in any key, whatsoever.

    So then, the other thing you wanna try is the same thing: melody, bass
    notes, and pick just one note in the middle, so you basically have three
    voices. The other one, it’s more or less 4 voices: melody, bass note and
    then one note in the middle, smooth voice leading. Best to start with thirds
    and sevenths. And then basically, you wanna keep as many common tones
    as possible, this middle voice. Keep it completely smooth. And then the last
    version... It gets more complex, but another version is: you do the same
    thing, not with the melody, and go through bass notes... We already did
    thirds and sevenths, but you could take the bass notes. And then, one
    voice, just do diads, through the tune, and you can have the voice going in
    upward motion or you can try the voice going in downward motion.
    Whenever you need to move up or down, you should pick a consonant
    interval. In other words, an octave, or a fifth, sixth or something like that, to
    move up or down. Eventually, you’re gonna exceed the range of your
    instrument, so you wanna watch that. Anyway, so that’s the beginning, and
    to do that, in any key. If we keep going, the exercises get more complicated
    and more difficult with the voices and all that."

    Check out the whole interview at jazzheaven.com- it's great stuff :)

    -mrzzajjazz

  2. jorgemg1984
    Member

    Hey, I heard the interview - all three actually. Great stuff, I wish Mark talked more about ear training.

    I usually do the Continuous Scale Exercise on tunes I practice but Mark's stuff go much deeper...

    When will the Lage Lund be released?

    Thanks!

  3. mrzzajjazz
    Member

    I have no idea when it comes, I'm sure looking forward to that myself:)

  4. Matt
    Member

    i think he means triads, not 'diads'

  5. Glad you are enjoying the interview with Mark (and the other 2 with Abercrombie & Bill Stewart).

    To answer your question re Lage & Gilad instructional video release dates:
    Working on them, but no longer giving out ETAs, since too many things can cause delays... and then people are rightfully upset over broken promises. So, it's live when it's live. And that will be in the coming months...

    Best,

    Falk

  6. jorgemg1984
    Member

    Good - I have been waiting for a long time to hear Lage's ideas. You could also do an 1-hour interview with Kurt :)

  7. patfarlow
    Member

    i dont think the gilad lesson will ever come out

  8. jorgemg1984
    Member

    Why?

  9. Ben
    Member

    I would love to hear the fullest extent of the practice approach Mark Turner describes. The beginning ideas seem simple but essential, yet he seems to elude to a bigger picture which he never quite elaborates on. Its funny how the interview is an hour long yet Mark drops this small piece of his routine on us in a few seconds (which def opened doors and ideas for me), but I wish he gave us a conclusion or wrapped up the ending instead of just being like, "It gets more complex as you continue". What a great guy for doing the interview, and thanks to Falk for putting it out there for free. The Abercrombie one cracked me up when he was talking about Dreams and all the bad fusion recording he did ala Mahavishnu..

    Where do you guys think Turner was eventually going with this practice routine/etude?

    Will someone please analyze Kurts chordal approach simply, like Mark did with his routine...

  10. docbop
    Member

    I have both the Jerry Bergonzi DVD's and lots of great practice ideas.

    Matt dyad is the right term. Dyads are basically two notes that imply a chord in Jazz typically the 3rd and 7th of a chord.

  11. @benjaminira my pleasure. Glad you enjoyed it!

    @patfarlow - can't blame you - I know this seems to be taking forever.
    But... we are a *tiny* operation and we go for really nice production level.
    And it takes quite something to release a nice & shiny (and gitch-free) product.
    Plus, fyi, we shot 31 projects already. And only 9 are released.
    So, stuff can only be processed and released bit by bit.
    Think of it like a small winery - we may not put out much - but when we do, it's gonna be GOOD. ;)
    Thanks for your patience!

    @docbop - thanks for your support! And I am glad you are getting good stuff out of it!

    We actually already had a shoot date for an instructional video with Mark (with basically Voice Leading as the topic...) - but then some schedule conflict came up and it never happened so far.
    I am still interested in doing it, and I am pretty sure Mark is still open to it as well.
    But as mentioned above, we have a decent backlog, so gotta first work that off before we shoot any new projects.

    Best,

    Falk

  12. filters
    Member

    Some suggestions :

    -instructional videos by Kurt Rosenwinkel (especially chords), Mark Turner, Nir Felder, Mike Moreno, Aaron Parks, Danny Grissett.
    -including some in-depth interviews and maybe some short documentaries.

  13. @filters Noted. ;) Thanks for the suggestions!

    FYI, in-depth (50/60-minute) interviews are already part of the program on each of our instructional videos.

  14. Neither
    Member

    Yes a video by Kurt Rosenwinkel on chords (on standards) and a video of Mike Moreno (how to play pentatonic that doesn't sound like pentatonics ?)

  15. patfarlow
    Member

    if your going for all the best up and coming guitarists, Julian Lage must be added to the above list.

  16. Ben
    Member

    Jesse Van Ruller. He's the only one even close to Kurt in my opinion. I love Ben Monder's sound though.. Wouldn't we all love to see Monder and Rosenwinkel play a duo concert. That would blow my mind into a million pieces. What if Eric Harland was on drums. My imagination is going wild.

    Falk, thank you so much. The Bergonzi DVDs are beautiful. Getting Mark Turner in there eventually would be fantastic. Also I think you should allow people to pre-order DVDs even if the premieres are still undetermined. It might get some folk off your back, while getting more revenue to speed up production or grow your business. I'd be down..

    Also if you do more interviews, try getting an interviewer who is a student, fan, or colleague of the interviewee. I think it would make things a bit more personal and the questions would probably be more precise. For instance, a drummer should interview a drummer, or a tenor player should interview a tenor player. I know you did this with the Begonzi Dvds, but not with the free interviews or the Lee Konitz Dvd. Hope this helps!

    All the Best!

  17. filters
    Member

    I second that about Jesse Van Ruller. Truly mind blowing.

    My top 3 instructional videos : 1) Kurt Rosenwinkel 2) Mark Turner 3) Aaron Parks or Lage Lund !

    The preorder thing is right ... but having like an idea is good too (4, 5, 6 months?)

    I think part of the teaching is coming from the interview so it's a very very important aspect of it.

  18. Thanks for your input!

    Pre-order: too much heat & expectations.
    Wouldn't wanna go there.

    @filters sorry, I will stick to my guns and no more ETAs whatsoever.
    Things already got kind of unpleasant when promised deadlines were broken. (And I can understand the frustration of that.)
    So now I rather keep it clearly defined as "no ETAs".

    Interviewer: I fully agree with you.
    I always tell/offer the artists to ideally bring someone who is more intimately familiar with their work than me.
    Sometimes they took it, sometimes they didn't.
    (Sometimes, imho, I would have done a better job than the interviewer they brought. ;P
    Not that I claim to be a Charlie Rose myself... Just doing it so it happens.)

    The Bill Stewart/Mark Turner/Abercrombie interviews were done before JazzHeaven.com launched or produced stuff, so there was less professional ambition & production quality involved (and no video), so I just knocked them out myself.
    Again, in principle, I agree with what you wrote. Somebody who is very familiar with their work and plays the same instrument ideally should do it.
    But, for what it was, I think those three came out well also.

    (Did get one hate mail saying something like "the Bill Stewart Interview was really bad. You should have not released it. Etc."
    Oh well, can't please everybody... And I respectfully disagree.)

    Best,

    Falk

  19. jorgemg1984
    Member

    I liked Bill's interview - really honest. But not much tips to practice that's true.


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