Rhythm notation problems

(5 posts)
  1. david6strings
    Member

    I need some help about understanding how to read for rithmic situations in a triplet feel situation. the first measure is four beats, i have written one thing in every beat, compare the beat 1 of the 12/8 measure with the beat 1 of the 4/4 swing feel. sound the same? So the same procedure with both 2 beats etcetera...

    The other option i found is to read it like it was straight 16's like a specific beat is no swing notation system affected by. i don't know. all of these, not a full measure like in the pic but one beat with some of the rythm in the pic and the rest of the measure filled with the triplet feel eights.
    i hope the post is understandable, it's so hard to me to explain it in english. cheers!!!

    http://cid-2eead9b260c7abc5.photos.live.com/self.aspx/ritmo/swing.JPG

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  2. Poparad
    Member

    Usually when there are a lot of sixteenth note rhythms in a swing feel, the part has shifted to a double-time feel, where the 8ths are now straight, and the sixteenths may or may not be swung (depending on the tempo).

    The rhythm on the first beat, though, is common in swing when the rhythms are otherwise 8th notes or longer, and the 12/8 interpretation that you have is the way to go about feeling that. The others are not rhythms you'll really ever see and have to swing like that. Beat 4 maybe, but it would just be like what you did for beat one, except that instead of two sixteenths, it's a sixteenth note triplet. The 8th would still become a quarter note in 12/8.

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  3. silverwater
    Member

    Poparad has pretty much has it.

    I don't think of both measures as sounding the same, but I understand how you're getting there and why there's confusion.

    Here's what you should do to play the first measure of your example with a swing feel: Write it out as two measures of 4/4, and double the value of each note.

    Here would be the values of the notes, and the counting underneath:

    (1/4 1/8 1/8 1/8 1/8 1/4 ) (1/8 1/4 1/8 1/4 [trip-el-let])

    ( "1" "2 &" " 3 &" "4" )( "1 &" "(2) &" "3" "4-pel-let")

    Play those two bars with a swing feel, but at twice the BPM as the original single measure. That is how the measure should sound.

    I'm getting here because when I hear people swinging 16th notes, they swing every other note, just like 1/8th notes. Four consecutive 16th notes with a swing feel at 60 BPM should sound identical to four consecutive 1/8 notes with a swing feel at 120 BPM. I'm also getting here because I often play up tempo 4/4 tunes in 2/2, tapping my foot twice for each measure instead of 4 times and subdividing the 1/8 notes as 1/16 notes in my head. The tune wouldn't sound right if I tried to perform the way you are interpreting things.

    Short & Simple Answer: The first 16th note in your example comes where an EVEN 1/8 note would be, not where a swung 1/8 would be. If someone wants a phrase like that to sound like your 12/8 example, but written in 4/4, they'll write triplet brackets around the beats.

  4. silverwater
    Member

    One more thing to add:

    Never forget that Jazz is a Blues/Soul/R&B-based music that often borrows elements, especially harmonic and melodic, from the European/Western Classical tradition. It's not the other way around. Anybody who approaches Confirmation like a classical musician approaches Brahms is doomed to sound lame, and wrong. Although sometimes Jazz musicians get really mathematical and intellectual with their playing/composing, in the end it's all about creating the energies and expressions of the blues.

    Also you may have been told this, but a swing feel is something personal and can't exactly be written out, and many players play the second note of a pair of "swung" 1/8 notes in different places...some closer to where the even 1/8 is, some maybe closer to the 16th.

  5. david6strings
    Member

    thanks for the answer guys. it seems to me useful in terms of hearing or writting arrangements of tunes.

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