Magical rainbow ponies

Swing feel

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  1. Din
    Member

    I've been working on my swing feel and I've thought about the players who have a swing feel I like, and my list is:
    Jonathan Kreisberg
    Tim Miller
    Jim Hall

    Kreisberg if I'm not wrong, can have a great swing feel even picking all the notes (and sounds amazing), I'm practicing in order to archieve that.
    Tim seems to be picking all the "up" and using hammer on and pulloffs for the others.
    Jim does a mix of both? (am I right?)

    So, what do you guys have discovered about how to have a nice flowing swing feel, and what are your favorite players?

  2. jorgemg1984
    Member

    I think you nailed it - Kreisberg has one of the best stacatto swings I have heard. Kurt on Intuit uses bebop articulations a lot (picking the up and slurring the down) and Jim Hall has used both on his carreer. Right now I am trying to develop the Kreisberg / Lund stacatto swing picking which is hard - stacatto players tend to have a very "jumpy" swing and tend to have an annoying pick sound on the strings (those two players are the best I have ever heard because they avoid those two issues).

    I think the major problem with bebop articulations is that you can just use it in scale runs on the guitar - if you change directions, use arpeggios or intervalic lines you have to pick so it's good to develop a stacatto swing. Although I trained bebop articulations a lot and helped with my stacatto swing because it showed me swing is a combination of triplet feel and upbeat accents (which I try to emulate even picking all the notes).

  3. guitarmo
    Member

    You gotta hear it.....

  4. Matt
    Member

    i would only agree that jim hall has a great feel. i've not listened to lots of tim miller so i cant say there but kreisberg, while an amazing player, sounds better on straight eighth tunes than swing ones. i think a lot of younger, modern guitarists (moreno, hekselman) while all amazing players, have not cultivated impressive swing feels and mostly i think it's not exaggerated enough.

    if you listen to scofield, his feel is so exaggerated and greasy and slick and that's why it's so great. metheny and frisell play in that vein too. jim hall as well.

    bill evans, sonny rollins, miles davis, dexter gordon, thelonious monk.... those are the guys who come to mind for great feel, none of which are guitarists. unfortunately, i think we (as guitarists) are a disadvantage with feel because it's hard to sound so laid back on a hunk of wood with strings on it. i guess you gotta hear it....

  5. Din
    Member

    Matt, I think you didn't understood what I meant. Swing has a lot of options of how to be played. One of them is the way Kreisberg plays, speacially because is not exaggerated and there relies the goodness of it, because actually it is harder (try it!) to play like him than do a triplet-y swing feel. Not that it is bad to do that, it depends on taste, the player, the tempo, the groove, etc.
    I hear kurt tends to swing harder when playing chords and those kind of stuff than lines, does anybody agree? (By harder I mean more close to the triplet thing than straight eight notes, not better or worse).

  6. Matt
    Member

    well i guess a fundamental disagreement would be that i dont think swing 'has a lot of options of how to be played'. i guess it does but i think the one way i described is the way most people in my experience would vouch for. Most saxophonists, pianists, etc, play in the same vein of feel. i'm not trying to cause any ruckus but that's what i think.

  7. It seems to me every great player has his or her own way of swinging---that is a key element to their own "thing". Louis Armstrong ,Charlie Parker,Lester Young,John Coltrane ,Wayne Shorter all swing their own way ---Not totally unlike the others but not the same. I think it's important to cultivate your own approach---cultivated by study of people you like of course. My opinion only I guess.

  8. jorgemg1984
    Member

    Matt there a lot of options for swinging... Keith Jareet has a different swing from Oscar Peterson - and the list could go on and on. I understand your point about Scofiled but sometimes I feel his swing is too much and a little out of control. Maybe Moreno and Hekselman don't have that much swing but Kreisberg can sure swing

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Flash Video

    His eight note runs swing a lot here!

  9. Din
    Member

    There's a reason why Hal Galper suggests to tap your foot on 1 & 3 instead of 2 & 4 if you're almost playing in 12/4, so you don't exaggerate the swinging eight notes.

  10. Matt
    Member

    well, i never said players didnt swing differently. they certainly do but i think it all falls within a similar vein. kreisberg does sound great in the cut, his lines are pretty swingin'.

    but i think we're getting confused, when i say exaggerated i dont mean like Django Reinheart, i simply mean having a pronounced articulation, sense of beat placement, and 'feel'. of course you can play in front, behind, beside, ontop of the beat, and you can choose to articulate heavily or not...

    tl;dr i dont mean the triplet-staccato-polka-esque swing feel when i say exaggerated.

  11. jorgemg1984
    Member

    I get you Matt, I agree with you're saying but I do think you can swing with a staccato playing. This was atually a revelaton to me as I used to be pretty stric to "bebop articultions" but even Kurt has a lot of staccato playing in some of his standard solos. I actually concluded some months ago you MUST be able to have a staccato swing in the guitar because of the nature of the isntrument - I have been working a lot on my right hand lately because of that. There are just too many things you cannont slur on the guitar...

    Din I agre 100% with that, "Forward Motion" completely changed my life.

  12. fakejake
    Member

    You think it is worth digging into Hal’s forward motion? I started to read the book some while ago, but I didn’t like his style of writing + the stuff he said about the physiological basis of playing music, up to a point where reading it made me angry so I quit. Are the concepts + exercises really worth practicing?

  13. david6strings
    Member

    try to write in sibelius a 16 quintuplet for every beat. the first three notes are the first attack of the beat. the last two notes are the second attack. play the accents like this: first attack slighty less volume in picking, the second attack regular. (my english lol) This is nothing conclusive but in scale runs i think is more closely to the truth than the triplet explanation with the accent in second eights. but i'm sure the key is articulations. i don't think kurt is the best exemple for swing. maybe peter bernstein. when you play a (break?) (obligado)with the band the triplet subdivision seems to me the better exlplanation of subdivision. players who have a special relationship with time like Lee Konitz always have been my favourites

  14. patfarlow
    Member

    metheny also says to practice swing with triplet feel in those online lessons

  15. jorgemg1984
    Member

    Hi Jake, I get what you're saying - the book is a little on the "self-help" side but I thought it was very interesting and changed my way of thinking on lots of topics. I never did any exercise based on the book just started to think more on point of arrival instead of points of departure and started feeling time on 1 and 3. I don't think it will hurt you reading the book :)

  16. Din
    Member

    Pat says one thing and plays another... he has an awesome swing that isn't an obvious triplet, the way he articulates and even hides notes is great.


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