Tone Help

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  1. Basile865
    Member

    http://youtu.be/TaRP63rx5vk

    If that link doesnt work just search kurt rosenwinkel 1.03.09

    I always return to this vid as one of my favorite kurt solos. The lines are incredible, but Ive had trouble getting a tone similar. I took an ibanez semi hollow am73 I own to test out a new rat pedal and it sounded like santana. Read: crap.

    Kurts tone isnt all that complicated here, it would seem to be a 335, vintage rat and twin reverb. Im sure some kind of EQ and compression as well? Do the vintage rats really have the secret here? Ive heard other people get the tone, but theyre generally using his same exact setup or very similar. Any help would be appreciated.

    Im using an ibanez am73, i have a dunlop 10 band eq that i rarely use because it adds a bit too much hiss for me and i have various tube amps. Would a compressor really help? Thanks again

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  2. Do you have a volume pedal? Put it after the eq as your chain goes towards the amp . The hiss only sucks when you're not playing, right? I have just a 6band mxr eq and there is hiss but there is the potential to balance the tone put out by just the guitar itself- a considerable volume increase and slight gain sensitivity boost and general " life " that comes from this pedal which I don't want to give up. Changing the volume pedal's placement in the chain allows for rolling off when I want ' silence ' because that eq is behind it and determined by it rather than the other way around.

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  3. Basile865
    Member

    I dont have a vol pedal, need to pick one up.

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  4. jorgemg1984
    Member

    Just get a better eq pedal - graphics are not very good and the MXR is indeed noisy. The Empress is nice although expensive.

    What tube amps do you have?

    I would say a lot of his tone comes from light right hand attack and strong left hand legato.

    It also sounds like he is using an EQ with the Twin, that treble is too soft. Or maybe the filter very low on the rat?

    I also hear some compression to add sustain, delay and reverb.

    Another thing is those stack Ibanez usually have very poor pickups / electronics, an upgrade there might help too.

    Try having just a few gain, volume on unity gain and the filter very low (counter clockwise on the rat). Maybe it will get you there.

    PS - New Rats are indeed not very good - different chip and poor construction. Vintage ones tend to be expensive and are not true bypass and need a 9v adapter. But the circuit is out there plenty of guys can build you a vintage clone for cheap and with some mods / true bypass / regular 9v. A friend got me one and I use it with an RC Booster and sounds perfect.

    But here's a friend of mine playing with one of the new ones - it is possible to take that sound out of one... but he's using a Polytone.

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Player

  5. Basile865
    Member

    I couldnt agree more about the light picking hand and stronger legato hand. I cant even listen to heavy handed guitarists.

    The electronics in the Ibanez are actually not bad at all. Im going to put in better pots but the pickups are very strong. This is an early 2000 model I bought used, the current ones are not nearly as well made - rough frets, flat finish etc.

    I'll have to bite the bullet and get a parametric EQ sometime. I wonder what kurt used for compression before the old world audio 1960 compressor pedal? I wonder if he still currently uses it.

    As for amps I have a super lead plexi 100 watt that I love to death. I used to use a twin reverb but the one I had was a dog compared to the newest ones, which if I had the money Id pick one up. I also just took a Fender Excelsior in trade, which is a 1x15 13 watt combo with just a volume knob and a tremelo knob. Very cool amp but it doesnt have the headroom to do this sound that well.

    You'll have to remind me of your friends name again in the clip. I love that song, how they present a motif and then modify it as they play through. And he has a great tone.

    Theres a clip on youtube if you search old world audio 1960 where a guy has a great tone but i mean he's shamelessly copying kurts setup. 1960 old world audio compressor, 1984 rat, and kurts vestax dangelico. Clearly money is of no issue haha, but hey, if youve got it why not

  6. jorgemg1984
    Member

    I think he used more compressor in the past than now... I recall several pedals - Tone Press, Joe Meq, TC El, Wampler... but I might be wrong. On that clip it does sound compressed but so does Youtube usually :)

    His name is Virxilio da Silva - great player.

    I think your plexi with an Empress EQ, Wampler Compressor and RAT should get you that sound... don't waste your money on new RATs, a clone will be much better and much cheaper. Maybe you don't even need compression... RAT's have a sweet spot you have to mess with the knobs until you find that sound!! Maybe Kurt can share his settings?

  7. Basile865
    Member

    http://youtu.be/8Xioy4BAIGY

    Thats the guy using a basically identical rig i was talking about.

    Wouldnt it be cool to build an optical compressor clone and a rat clone in one box? I know visual sound has an overdrive/compressor pedal in one unit, but its not the same stuff.

  8. jorgemg1984
    Member

    He does sound a lot like Kurt...

    This guy might do his Alpha Dog (similar to the Rat) and a compressor in one box

    http://www.vfestore.com/

  9. Check out some of my pedals at codtone.com
    A Rat/compressor for you would be no problem and I'll do a good deal for KR forum members!

  10. Gaquino
    Member

    It's not impossible for me to recreate that tone. A 335-like, Rat, a correct set of delay's and reverb and a good amp are enough. The tone is very similar compared to Santana! The hands and some little tricks makes the difference.

    1) Set presence and treble on your amp very low, hand close the filter on the rat almost full.
    2) Turn UP the tone control on your guitar
    3) look at the right hand on the video: he picks very near the bridge. This is the most important thing for this sound, cause you have to balance the low treble frequencies that you lose due set the amp as said.
    4) Play clean! He never take 2 notes the same time, no chords, only lines just a horn. This is very important in the perception of the tone.
    5) no bendings!
    6) the gain is very important: search for the correct quantity. statrt at zero gain; then increase till you have a good compression for legato playing. The gain is not so high in the video as it looks like.

    I hope this is useful for you, sorry for my english, I'm italian.

    P.S. in this video i tried to recreate the clean sound, check it out! [url=

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Player


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