Say no more.
It's all a matter of taste...
I have 3 albums of Kreisberg and saw him live twice. But I'm not really into his playing and style even if I think he's a monster player (awesome chops and time - his voicings too).
For me Lage Lund is my favorite ! Everything he plays just blows my mind.
Taste, just taste.
filters: yeah, its all about taste, but also mood. Sometimes I want Lage Lund sofisticated elegance and brilliant breathing style. Sometimes I want Kreisbergs brutal force, just watch competence in its most spectacular form. I envy Jonathans confidence. It feels like he cant play wrong, everything runs like a dancing train full speed ahead. For me Lage have this thoughtful mind, like a philosopher. Kreisberg at times tend to be very recognizable in some of his most common moves. Still...JKs take on youtube on "Autumn in New York" is some of the best ballad playing Ive heard from a guitarist.
Thanks for the replies folks!
I can't really understand a lot of these new american guitarists, like Kreisberg, Lund, etc. I've heard Lage Lund play some really beautiful stuff, but again I've been bored out of my mind listening to him. This is only very seldom the case with Kurt, for me he has a lot more nerve and spirit happening in most of his music (like on 'The Remedy'). Even so, I cant really explain why I really like Kurt while, honestly, I don't really care that much for Kreisbergs playing. I'm not trying to put them off or anything, just voicing my opinion to see if there are any other peeps here with the same opinion?
Check out Lage Lund's solos on "Jazz" off Nickelsen S. record. This is the best jazz guitar solo I've ever heard...
Almost everything he plays on his "Early Songs" record is so great. His trio record too is cool.
What really turns my attention on Lage are the videos that were on YouTube with David Sanchez. I've watched them too many times.
Well again... It's the same with Adam Rogers, he's a great player. But I can't really get into his style. None of his playing is memorable for me.
It's kind of pointless to say "ok I like him, I don't like his playing" but it's interesting to notice that people aren't reacting the same way to players who fit in the "jazz" area.
So my question is : which songs of this player (and maybe which part of the solo) do you really enjoy and why ?
For the solo on the tune "Jazz" by Lage Lund : the melodic content, the interaction with Ari Hoenig, the time feel, the mood... it's hard to describe.
Anyway I enjoy listening to Kreisberg and Rogers from time to time and I also enjoy discussing about them with open-minded people who are writing on this forum!
eSkills: Lage Lund is norweigian...
Filters: I have same "problem" with Adam Rogers. His playing for me feels kinda "dry". But at the same time...With Chris Potters Underground, Adam Rogers is a freaking beast.
I love these sets with JK from Smalls.
This is a favorite as well with JK:
Today's new wave of jazz guitarists are very interesting to me. Guys like Lage and Jonathan and Mike and Gilad are all obviously very skilled but in general it seems like they are alot less interesting then the people that came before them. One thing I notice, and there are plenty of exceptions to this, is that alot of these guys aren't playing very many interesting lines. For example, Jonathan is a great player but I was watching him and Will Vinson at smalls with Ari awhile ago and Will was completely out playing Jonathan because his lines were so much better. Jonathan plays nice things with a good time feel but your not going to find to many crazy lines in his playing and he seems to frequently resort to patterns and licks that I have heard him use before. On the other hand, Mike Moreno plays some sick lines but he plays them all with the exact same attack and feel. This is great because it gives his playing great forward motion but it is also frankly kind of boring. I feel like when you compare these guitarist to their peers on Piano, Saxophone, Trumpet ect.. you quickly find that the guitarists aren't playing that much interesting stuff....IDK these are all just thoughts I've been having lately, what do you guys think?
TheBbBeast: Well put! :)
Gilad impresses me most. His playing is so insanly mature it freaks me out. A pianist, at the same age, also from Israel is Shai Maestro (plays with Avishai Cohen trio) who also blows my mind. Even if you like them or not (Kreisberg, Hekselman, Lund, Moreno, Rogers, do not forget Tim Miller) they all contribute to make a really good and fresh New York (Tim Miller is in Boston right?) scene happen. You have so much to chose from. They certnainly have a HUGE impact (via youtube bootlegs esp.) on a young generation jazz musicians. They obviously make the scene more vital, whatever you like it/them or not.
I agree that these players contribute to the scene and have an impact on lots of players, but if they weren't on the scene others would be. I just wonder why so many guitar players don't seem to be playing as cool of stuff as their peers on other instruments, specifically line wise.
I would say that these lines are really cool, and perhaps groundbreaking:
From around 2:00, around 5:00 is absolutly bananas...
And perhaps this too?
His lines are fantastic IMHO.
I kinda agree with filters and Sandemose with much of Adam Rogers playing, he doese'nt always interest me as much as Kurt, Kreisberg, Lund and Hekselman, but his solo on "Long ago and far away" on "Art of the invisible" is just fantastic!
I'm on the same page as Bb Beast here. While Gilad, Kriesberg etc are great musicians and technicians, I just find that it's not really a more developed "Kurt" thing. Lets not forget the huge contribution Kurt has made to the modern jazz guitar vocabulary and sound over the last 10 years. It's very rare these days to find guitar players who are not influenced by him in some form or another. I wont go as far as saying that these guys are clones but it's not really anything too different. For me, the most interesting guitar players at the moment are Lionel loueke and Nelson Veras, their whole concept is so different to most of the jazz guitar vocabulary going around at the moment and makes for some really interesting listening. I've given all these guys a chance and I was especially drawn to Lund for a while but I always end up going back to Kurt and being more blown away by the stuff he's playing. The videos of him playing with the quartet on his last tour in Chris' Jazz Cafe and especially the ones from New Morining in Paris are just beyond description.
I'm not really into Rogers playing too much. It's almost like once he goes it's just a constant stream of 8th notes for ever with no real space.
@ Sandemose: thanks for the Tim Miller clip, totally amazing stuff there. Reminds me of my favorite version of that song recorded by Bill Evans from Sunday at the village Vanguard.
As far as my personal taste in guitarists go, I go through phases. I think there are certain guys I listen to for technical content like Rogers, Kreisberg, Metheny etc. and I'll totally dig those guys for a long period, then start to get bored. In fact, I rarely return chops oriented players. In generally I think this is because I feel a lot of jazz guitar (and quite a bit of jazz in general) is missing raw emotional/expressive content. In my opinion this has a lot to do with the fact that the guitar is such a technical instrument, it takes years of practice just to get out many basic ideas (not only that, the dynamic range, especially in that jazz guitar tone is so limited). The players I find myself coming back to really regularly (on guitar) are Bill Frisell, Django and Kurt. That's not to say that I don't love these other players, but when I feel like there's something missing on my playlist I put Ghost Town on, or Enemies of Energy. These are two records that can bring tears to my eyes, I can't really say that about many other jazz guitar players. No one addresses expression better than Kurt and Bill Frisell in the current jazz guitar field (IMHO).
I feel like I have to respond to this based on how huge this has gotten. I'll leave out Kurt because obviously everyone here digs him. Gilad is my next favorite after that, I feel like he really has the potential to sort of do what Kurt did and change the game entirely. Like Sandemose said he is incredibly mature and I feel like he just gets more and more creative (and playing with Hoenig probably helps). Lage has been catching my attention more and more and I feel like he has a lot more to offer that I missed when I first heard him. I love Kreisberg but he does tend to use certain stock phrases or patterns more than I would like. Adam Rogers I absolutely love with Chris Potter, but his solo records leave me cold. That said they are still all wonderful players......
BTW filters what is the record with Lage your talking about? I want to check it out.
This video could also be why I love Mark Ferber
interesting posts. It seems for many Kurt is the exception or trail blazer for the new school of guitar guys. I have to agree. Kurt just seems to play with more character and/or development as someone said earlier. Where he seems to really excel is his ability to have a high technical level without it ever being higher than is expressive level and you just dont see that that often in people with his chops.
I think thats where the others fall off for me. I want to like Lund but, I find it hard to pay attention too. I feel like Rogers is bored most of the time but, gets inspired when playing with Potter. Kriesberg I enjoy but, not enough to buy anything. Gilad Ive never heard of but, plan to fix that today.
I also love Lionel Loueke. I think Monder is really forging his own path, Joe O'C'Callaghan on Ronan Guilfoyles Microclimate (wish I could find more of Joe), Nelson Veras has got me really interested thanks to the mentions around here about him.
Anyway, didnt mean to turn this post into a, "What I like" post but, I guess I was thinking out loud, or whatever. I find the interests around this forum very inspiring. Some great players with great love and insight for world class music.
What i was listening too while typing this:
I often will play something from Jacob Young's albums (ECM), and most non-jazz listeners or people who are into music will really like his stuff....very musical stuff.
...check out the Jarrett and Haden album Jasmine, it's beautiful and very musical, a rare jem.
Not judge and jury here, but I do like to try and get a wide range of reactions from people to music and observe how they react and feel and respond. And so far, the guitar "greats" don't often fare that well, especially the new crowd, unless they play something very musical....for example, Kurt's Deep Song album, get's a better rating than most, but especially during the Brad solos....
Just some observations
I agree with filters about the David Sanchez youtube videos, Lage is really playing great. I'm finding it hard to get into his solo records though. And I agree with the majority about Adam Rogers, his solo records just leave me wanting to hear Underground.
I say, dead on right jazznan. There are a lot of guitarists' guitarists in jazz but, not a lot of, "I wanna dance and groove." people for guitarists in jazz.
Its lost its swing or dives in and out of it too much and that can be cool by me for 2 or 3 songs but, then you have to make me move and move hard for intimidating me with your playing that is crushing my ego. :)
I listened to Gilad and I like it and grooved but, I couldnt get really into it and stay into it. My head was saying, "All right!" but, my feet where saying, "what gives, Boo?"
yes, conway, i agree with make me move my feet, or my heart,
I think Jazznan nailed it. Of course there will be exceptions, but I think there is something drastically missing from the vibe that these guitar players are creating(and from my own as well). There is a reason this music speaks to musicians and, sounds annoying to a lot of the general public. I think it's like a math equation that hasn't yet produced something tangible. Like a mathematical equation for working of a light bulb, the equation is useless for the masses but, once that knowledge is tangible and functionable(lightbulb, something we can actually use) it now has impact and is desired by people. People can't use this music because it's too intellectual. Intellect is great, but it's like a halfway point, and finds completion in the heart. I feel that even with many guitar players, but probably much of the 'modern' jazz players in general sound like the 'equation.' So the music is still good, but only a few access it, and I think it's potential is therefore also diminished. By no means is my playing up to par with the big cats we're talking about, but my feeling are, and something don't feel quite right. I play tunes with a singer in my town, and she feels alot of feelings of coldness when I play much of what is termed 'modern' jazz. I take her opinion quite seriously, as a singer she has a strong relationship with emotion, and how things 'feel.' P.S. this turned into a bit of a negative rant, and my ipod is filled with Kurt, Kreisberg, Gilad, etc. There is a certain feeling that this new movement captures that is very deep, and fresh, and I would like to think that this thread is not really dumping on these guys, but interested in progress, and healthy criticism is part of evolving forward. And sometimes one has to stand up and tell the emperor he's not wearing any clothes. hehe GREAT TOPIC. Time to practice, gotta put my money where my mouth is. :)
If it's only intellectual usually I can't really like. I can appreciate it to a certain extent but... it's going to be something I'll be listening 20 times in a row.
For me Lage Lund is not intellectual at all, it's all soul and joy. I love Gilad Hekselman too : his takes on My ideal and How long has this been going on are two of my all time favorite recordings. You guys should really check these stuffs out. It's not "guitaristic", "intellectual-oriented stuff", or complicated. Maybe it's not grooving like... I dunno, but it's so lyrical.
About Adam Rogers : there's something I actually appreciate about him is this kind of "cold", "in your face" constant 8th approach, nailing the changes, defining everything. I just found this clip that I like :
I don't agree that the general public finds modern "intellectual" music annoying. I have gone to a lot of shows that I think would be in this realm with people who don't listen to jazz and they have always reacted either very positively or at the very least appreciated the musicianship but never has had a negative reaction where they said they really didn't like it or found it annoying. I think the reason it flies under the radar is the very same that all instrumental music does. A. people (non musicians) miss singing B. You have to look for it if you want to find instrumental music since it is never in the public eye. I think if you took any number of people to a Punk Bop show with
Gilad or Kreisberg or an Underground show with Rogers or a Kurt show they would leave really digging it.
Man, if this forum was an physical place, I would buy all you guys a beer (or whatever you´d prefer) for bringing your opinions in. Thanks alot. Ive had a great time reading all your posts. Its so intresting.
About the "emotional" thing versus the "intellectual" thing. Ive showed Kreisberg "Autumn in New York" to non-musicians, and it totally works. When showing Kurt, I like "Path of the heart" from "The next step". Its one of my favorite takes with Kurt ever. I myself doesnt really care if its intellectual or not. I cant tell "intellect" and "emotion" apart. For me, ART is the MOST intellectual aspect of life you can deal with. ART is the truth for me, and I dont care what devices/tools the artist uses to express his art. I think Arvo Pärt (estonian composer) described art/music perfectly:
"I could compare my music to white light which contains all colours. Only a prism can divide the colours and make them appear; this prism could be the spirit of the listener."
I like this way of putting it. Music is just a format, information, but your inner (intellectual?) reaction on the music puts you in center. What the artist "feels" when he/she plays, doesnt matter to me. I dont care, and I dont wanna know. I dont think of it that some people play with "feeling" and some dont. I see it that it that some music deosnt resonate with me, or with my internal place where the resonance should take place. My two cents.
Thanks guys for making this place awesome.
That was a fantastic post. I also really love that quote.
Man, Arvo was really a deep cat. Spiegel im Spiegel FTW. I can dig a lot of what you guys are saying, even if I personally disagree a little. The only Adam Rogers record I have is Art of the Invisible and it leaves me a little cold at times, but sometimes I have to really spend time with a record before I can connect in an emotional place. I also have to admit that I'm prone to dancing like a fiend to The Remedy in my car. I really dig Gilad and Lage on everything of theirs I've heard, but I haven't checked them out past a record or two.
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