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<br/> <b>Strict Standards</b>: Non-static method BP_Options::get() should not be called statically in <b>/home/actidemann/</b> on line <b>9</b><br/> why no tapping in jazz? « The Kurt Rosenwinkel Forum

why no tapping in jazz?

(20 posts)

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  1. patfarlow

    Originally guitar wasn't amplified, so it wasn't possible.
    However, now its easy to use tapping for huge octave leaps and other wise impossible passages.
    So why isn't tapping used more in jazz solos?

  2. contremisart

    Because metalheads own it :P

    By the way there is a video on youtube where Scofield plays some blues and at the end of it he makes fun with some of that tapping stuff and tells he wish he could have done that :)

  3. JPMike

    Stanley Jordan?? He taps and plays jazz, right?

  4. patfarlow

    yea but still one guy out of how many?

  5. gleepglop

    My opinion:

    Tapping tends to be worked out licks, so it doesn't lend itself to improvisation. It's limited rhythmically, tending to emphasize streams of repetitive 16th notes. It also doesn't work that great for clean sounds and doesn't have the dynamic range or phrasing control that pick or fingers offer. At best it's kind of a trick or special effect (like false fingerings on saxophone). I don't see what musical advantages it offers for a jazz musician, except for an occasional effect. Similar to why jazz guitarists don't usually play slide solos.

    What Stanley Jordan does is a little different than rock-style tapping; he probably does it as well as it can be done. But the tone, dynamics and phrasing still suffer, which is probably why people are more interested in people like Kurt, Peter Bernstein, Ben Monder.

  6. At 1:09ish. Gilad .
    Check out this video on YouTube:

  7. patfarlow

    I dont see why one couldn't improvise with it? Its no different from seeing patterns and playing with a pick it seems. Gilad does pull it off nicely though. It doesn't have to be 16th notes, you can arrange groups of 5's or 3's or 7's or anything you like! I agree it doesn't work well clean, but Kurts uses a lot of effects doesn't he?

  8. cruxtable

    if you're gonna defend it that much then just do it. if it doesn't work it doesn't work, and if it does you'll be a revolutionary

  9. patfarlow

    It's not "defending it that much" What your witnessing is a civil conversation. Ideas flow back and forth man.

  10. docbop

    Personally not a fan of tapping it gets old fast for me. Jazz is about spontaneous compostions not play licks or notes in a pattern which tapping is all about. I also don't find tapping a good method for expressing one self, it has limited dynamic range and doesn't offer a lot for articulating a note.

  11. Despite an arguably different harmonic terrain,there are countless van halen solos that come waaaaaay closer to the spirit of a horn than countless jazz guitar solos ever have/will.

  12. hi there, check out darko jurkovic, a guitar player from croatia:

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Plugins

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Plugins

    so keep an open mind, guys!

  13. contremisart

    I am not a fan of tapping either but Tosin Abasi uses is very conveniently, plus he lists Kurt as an inspiration. Maybe if he dips his toes to jazz we can hear some nice jazz tapping :)

  14. The abasi stuff leaves me cold. It really feels thin and empty. I used to play this game with myself of liking stuff despite there being GLARING issues with it; telling my friends stuff like " ignore how corny this is ... Isn't it amazing ?!". Yes, there are neat ideas and stuff but I can't get passed that thin quadraverb fake clean sound; it feels like a guitar app not a guitar. Despite the cool math when shit gets heavy something in the production reeks of eyeliner.
    As for darko, this sounds great! But I don't see what the tapping is really doing for him . In the first clip, he rarely exploits compound for himself. The lines are super sick but if I close my eyes it just feels like really rad Lenny breau ( without harmonics ) that airy light bright high and only occasionally the tritone comps in the bass . It doesn't seem like it is crucial to making those lines. Kind of feels like the allegedly blind Jeff healey who played on his lap. It's all fine. Stanley Jordan dies cool things but his taste is super corny. Again, those van halen solos are so much closer to a sax than most jazz guitar ( aside from holdsworth; who is totally not on either map yet is his own territory to be reckoned with )!

  15. gleepglop

    Well, you asked why it isn't used more, not whether it was possible. It has certain tendencies, they aren't insurmountable, but they are reasons why it is more popular in rock style than jazz.

    Obviously it is possible, since Stanley Jordan does it. And this guy Darko (which is a badass name), who is even more convincing than Jordan (and has better taste). Most of what he's doing doesn't actually require tapping, so one wonders why he chose that approach. The issues with tone, dynamics and phrasing are still apparent, though his stuff is hip enough in other areas to mostly make up for it.

    The thing Hekselman is doing is cool, reminds me of the Brad Mehldau lick where he does something similar. It still falls under the "special effect" category IMO.

    As crux said, if you want to do it, go ahead, maybe you will come up with something great. In that case, your question should have been "can tapping be incorporated into jazz soloing effectively?" not "why don't more jazz guitarists use tapping?"

    I don't think of Van Halen as sounding anything like saxophone, to me it is very guitaristic. To some extent, the compression and sustain of distortion always gives the guitar a more hornlike vibe, but I don't think that has anything to do with tapping. The aspects of tapping that are saxophonesque remind me of bad saxophone players' tendency to replace lines with finger wiggling.

  16. ... Everyone's wiggling fingers. Truly... Jazzhandzz.

  17. Possibly it's the thin, 'tinny' timbre of tapped notes, the antithesis of a 'classic' jazz guitar tone, that has limited it's popularity. That and the fact that it doesn't really lend it's self to swung 1/8th note articulations.
    I'm suprised no one's mentioned this, but I believe the first guitarist to tap notes was Tal Farlow. He frequently used tapped notes to expand chord voicings into both higher or lower registers.

  18. Nothing wrong with a little extended technique here and there.

  19. Poparad

    The thinness of tone is what's always irked me about it. However, with distortion, that's not an issue, and the use of distortion, even in a straight ahead jazz context (Kurt is a great example) is no longer a taboo, so I could see it filtering in.

    Also, as far as Tosin Abasi goes, I love his stuff and it's refreshing to hear such a new sound. I disagree with a lot of the criticisms in this thread, as he's not coming from a jazz background, but a metal one, and many of the aspects of his sound are drawn from that, which has a different set of goals in mind than jazz does. Without understanding that, it's easy to be quick to dismiss some of the elements of his music that are contrary to the way they're traditionally done in jazz.

  20. SJS

    What about stick players like steve Adelson? He's definetly coming at it from a jazz perspective


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